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Anonymous Thu 01 Oct 2015 14:32:01 No.496158 View Reply Report Delete

Quoted By: >>496159 >>496172 >>496184 >>496201 >>496218 >>496225

>pathtracing
>Unlimited resolution

I don't know what these mean.
Why should anyone be looking forward to these?
These seem like features geared more to the high poly concept art crowd (like keyshot)?
Are these just marketing buzzwords?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 01 Oct 2015 14:35:45 No.496159 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>496199

>>496158
Forgot link:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLNd1PKCTe0&feature=youtu.be

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 01 Oct 2015 15:15:18 No.496168 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>496169 >>496225 >>498721

path tracing is a lighting algorithm for GI, comparable to ray tracing

>geared more to the high poly concept art

if you're not gonna use substance designer as your main renderer it won't do much for you

unlimited resolution is pretty buzzwordy

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 01 Oct 2015 15:38:49 No.496169 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>496185

>>496168
>if you're not gonna use substance designer as your main renderer it won't do much for you

Understood, but this type of rendering is more for highpoly, with advanced reflections and stuff too intense/not applicable to typical game art/real time presentation, right?
I THINK that rendering approach is used for a more "bells and whistles, kit n kaboodle plus the kitchen sink" type renders.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 01 Oct 2015 16:27:00 No.496172 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>496192

>>496158
>materials with nothing but basic colors and values
>"insane"
the absolute madman

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 01 Oct 2015 18:33:46 No.496177 Report Delete

Quoted By:

the point of it is for people who want to use substance for film/cg. up u till now it has only been seen as something for game assets really, but this helps change that, so you can lookdev within the app and then exported your desired, properly calibrated for raytracing, maps.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 01 Oct 2015 20:30:19 No.496184 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>496188

>>496158
>Why should anyone be looking forward to these?
its a marketing thing. "They" "have" to have something "new" even when this is very old tech and "we" - the pro's - dont actually use iray or yibis shaders in production, not even for preview. Look at siggraph studio papers by say ready at dawn for how controlled it is in a typical film / game / commercial shop.

Substance just continues to "exist", not really creating anything new, just following trends.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 01 Oct 2015 20:40:20 No.496185 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>496188

>>496169
It's currently not possible to do good quality ray tracing in real time. It's for offline rendering.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 01 Oct 2015 21:07:22 No.496188 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>496184
"we" are starting to use Iray in the industry, for production, because of how powerful it is compared to other path tracers, and how well it scales across multiple GPUs while also utilizing CPUs. It's the fast path-tracer out now and is one of the most fully featured if not the most.

>>496185
With a high end GPU, Iray will converge to a good enough result for judgment purposes in less than 6 seconds. The progressive rendering is the same quality as "offline", it just gradually clears up graininess.

If you guys can't understand why this is useful to have in Substance, then you're sorely misguided or just plain stupid.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 01 Oct 2015 21:34:04 No.496192 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>496172
That jibe caused me to chortle heartily, I commend you sir.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 01 Oct 2015 22:51:52 No.496199 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>496159
>open video
>ominous, increasingly loud music
>WUB WUB WUB
>close video

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 02 Oct 2015 00:11:13 No.496201 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>496158
if you are using the substance painter then you should consider to get the designer.

beside that its most uncomplicated tool for game texturing i ever meet.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 02 Oct 2015 00:14:53 No.496202 Report Delete

Quoted By:

i like substance designer for having easy UI and really good engine for making game textures. i also can go into incredible generated reality details without to tweark it all in the photoshop at heavy resolutions. my minus point is that designer still needs some tools.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 02 Oct 2015 04:07:54 No.496218 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>496219 >>496221

>>496158
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3074lp

path tracing is way better than ray tracing, so yeah. its a big deal

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 02 Oct 2015 04:08:54 No.496219 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>496218
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25N7l8vqepQ&ab_channel=ImperoDisney

didnt know DM dosnt show, heres a youtube link

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 02 Oct 2015 04:30:27 No.496221 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>496222

>>496218
Path tracing is a ray tracing technique.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 02 Oct 2015 04:47:51 No.496222 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>496234

>>496221
Usually path-tracing is used to describe a brute-force method whereby you just shoot rays out from the camera. While ray-tracers shoot rays from lights and use a bunch of interpolation tricks and maps to approximate things, techniques like Final Gathering, Irradiance Particles, Importons and Final Gathering.

Iray blends both methods depending on which samplers you have enabled, and has support light diffusion for 3 years now
http://blog.irayrender.com/post/33644547935/double-rainbow
http://blog.irayrender.com/post/31979770119/iray-next-dispersive-caustics
http://blog.irayrender.com/post/51722647664/the-architectural-and-caustic-samplers
http://blog.irayrender.com/post/89741414098/caustic-and-architectural-sampler-revisited

And despite being a GPU accelerated path-tracer (uses all your GPUs and CPUs, even networked ones), it supports a lot of non-physical effects and control, including passes.
http://blog.irayrender.com/post/76948894710/compositing-with-light-path-expressions
http://blog.irayrender.com/post/37260056351/instant-relighting-nonphysical-effects
http://blog.irayrender.com/post/57429750790/an-approximation-of-reality
http://blog.irayrender.com/post/48117954581/section-planes
http://blog.irayrender.com/post/21324217781/matte-objects-in-iray
http://blog.irayrender.com/post/25643028657/matte-object-example

And a pretty nice feature to help reduce the limited amount of memory GPUs have.
http://blog.irayrender.com/post/54506874080/saving-on-texture-memory

They've really developed quite a decent production ready renderer that is accelerated immensely by consumer grade GPUs.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 02 Oct 2015 05:45:55 No.496225 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>496168
>>496158
They said "unlimited resolution" there because the person mentioned Keyshot, which has an artificial limit on the resolution you're allowed to render.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 02 Oct 2015 08:04:14 No.496234 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>496236

>>496222
>Usually path-tracing is used to describe a brute-force method whereby you just shoot rays out from the camera. While ray-tracers shoot rays from lights and use a bunch of interpolation tricks and maps to approximate things, techniques like Final Gathering, Irradiance Particles, Importons and Final Gathering.
its the same fucking thing mate, dont get bogged down on semantics pls

iray is a meme btw. Hi nvidia shills

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 02 Oct 2015 08:07:22 No.496236 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>496241

>>496234
It's bot the same thing and it's not. Yes a ray is being traced, but path-trace implies a different type of implementation, it usually implies "unbiased" while a biased will be called a "ray tracer". Just stating a fact of how the terms are usually used.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 02 Oct 2015 08:23:02 No.496241 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>496247

>>496236
every engineer uses these terms differently. Teh fact is that you basically shoot rays and wait for convergence in "both" cases, kid

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 02 Oct 2015 09:17:18 No.496247 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>496251

>>496241
Path tracers progressively converge, using the first set of samples to then sub-sample, and on and on for as long as you like. Ray-tracers don't converge, they have a preset amount of rays they shoot out and interpolate based on that strict amount, kid.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 1440272125059.jpg, 41KiB, 1280x720

Anonymous Fri 02 Oct 2015 09:43:52 No.496251 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>496255

>>496247
you shoot out rays for both and wait for the noise to clear up. Pathtracing is ray tracing extended to paths. This is a stochastic (random) method. You have terms like MCPT and MCRT. Read a book or two, idiot and not some blog.nvidiashill.kiddie.dum

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 02 Oct 2015 10:01:37 No.496255 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>496258

>>496251
You don't wait for the noise to clear up with a proper ray-tracer, you dunce, just like you don't wait for noise to clear up in your fucking games. With a renderer like mentalray, VRay (classic, not RT) and renderman, you have a predefined point density that hits the scene, is stored in maps and memory and then those points on the map are interpolated and used to calculate the shading using a rasterization method. Whereas what people know as "path-tracers" typically do this stochastic method (usually monte-carlo based) that just continues to sub-sample further until you get the result you want, whether the noise clears or not is all about the time you want to wait, instead of the properties you set beforehand.

Iray employs their own version of metropolis-light-transport, which is a precompute operation and thus their operation is not just stochastic. And the fact that it does light dispersion, render passes and LPEs is further evidence of that.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 02 Oct 2015 10:21:19 No.496258 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>496265

>>496255
you're just another blind shill.

Come back at me when shitty ass substance has any new, original, features worth mentioning, not just 1997 eric veach papers

-over and out

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 02 Oct 2015 10:59:54 No.496265 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>498759

>>496258
You suck at trolling m8, find a better day job.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 02 Oct 2015 11:03:53 No.496267 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>496282

What happened itt guize. Cliffs on this thread pls.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 02 Oct 2015 11:06:15 No.496268 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>496285

did someone say path tracing ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpT6MkCeP7Y

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 02 Oct 2015 13:02:00 No.496282 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>496267
From what I can tell, SD got a new alternate renderer.
It's not real time/indicative of of a game game engine render, nor does it seem for that crowd.
Instead, it a fancy schmancy render with a lot of bells and whistles not available/too much for real time renderers to handle.
That said, it seems to be catered towards more of the traditional 2d/cg crowd.
High poly stuff, rendering "concept" models which has become popular ala Vitaly Bulgarov who uses keyshot, it seems to also be looking to entice that crowd.

Added to SD for free. Program keeps getting better.
Great bang for your buck IMO.
>He paid for a program

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 02 Oct 2015 13:24:59 No.496285 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>496289

>>496268
Imagine the dough they could rake in if they make this a regular renderer instead of a game engine.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO tech_bidir_small[1].png, 622KiB, 1300x703

Anonymous Fri 02 Oct 2015 13:58:41 No.496289 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>496299 >>496307 >>498223

>>496285
I got no earthly idea whats stopping them. People are fed up with "upgraded" mentalray or vray which takes 4 minutes to render a fucking cube, while game engines are surpassing them with light speed.

I understand that the classic method for raytracers are different and take much longer time, but why has nobody came up with a new renderer that can do this shit with some smart algorythm like pathtracing so we only wait for seconds instead of hours.

I remember something called "Mitsuba" which uses some local point data technique to create GI only within seconds. It's not accurate as raytracers ofcourse but it's okay considering it only takes seconds and can run real-time.

https://www.mitsuba-renderer.org/

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 02 Oct 2015 15:27:10 No.496299 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>496308

>>496289
It's not that they can't render a nearly-perefect image really fast, most pathtracers could.
The small noise is what takes so long to cancel out. I can move around in the Blender viewport with Cycles too, and wait a second until the image clears up a bit. Dimly lit areas still take thousands of samples and a ridiculous amount of light bounces until the image is clear, and that's a step they simply left out.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 02 Oct 2015 16:52:56 No.496307 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>496289
You mean their Virtual Point Light renderer? That is only meant to be their viewport renderer. Anyways Mitsuba is meant as a research based renderer. Used to test out new algorithms. and never recommended for production use. Which is why you'll find things in there like the Adjoint Particle tracer which is literally the opposite of traditional rendering. And despite how inefficient APT rendering is it is still kind of fast in Mitsuba.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 02 Oct 2015 16:54:38 No.496308 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>496310

>>496299
>Dimly lit areas still take thousands of samples and a ridiculous amount of light bounces until the image is clear
Isn't that a problem that Metropolis was supposed to solve along with caustics?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 02 Oct 2015 17:13:10 No.496310 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>496317

>>496308
MLT doesn't "solve" that. The render times for animations are still long

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 02 Oct 2015 17:26:41 No.496317 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>496330

>>496310
I didn't mean it like that. I mean like doesn't it help reduce the noise in those dim areas a little faster so you don't have noisier areas than others?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 02 Oct 2015 17:51:52 No.496330 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>496337

>>496317
Maybe, depends on a lot of factors.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 02 Oct 2015 18:51:02 No.496337 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>496344

>>496330
Like what? Scene complexity?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 02 Oct 2015 19:06:03 No.496344 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>496337
mate...most plugin authors aren't good at predicting mutations well enough and in the end MLT has usefulness limited to only caustics and slightly open doors with a light coming through it in a dark room - two cases that dont come up very often in production. Most scenes are well lit during the day or many lights at night (think NYC times square after dark)

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 16 Oct 2015 20:09:39 No.498206 Report Delete

Quoted By:

bampu

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO fuck everything.gif, 3MiB, 267x199

Anonymous Fri 16 Oct 2015 22:27:37 No.498223 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>496289
>People are fed up with "upgraded" mentalray or vray which takes 4 minutes to render a fucking cube, while game engines are surpassing them with light speed.

fucking THIS.

I don't fucking need an autisticly accurate rendering technique for most of my stuff and would completely be satisfied with rendering techniques they use for today's games.

also, I wish I could switch between renderers without having to set up all materals again just for using a different renderer.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 19 Oct 2015 21:09:49 No.498721 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>496168
unlimited resolution as in image dimensions, not muh euclideon bullcrap.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 20 Oct 2015 01:39:35 No.498759 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>496265

I dunno, he had that guy going for a while. I'd have told him to fuck off after the second reply.

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