/an/ - Animals & Nature » Thread #1983435

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What is this thing

Anonymous Sat 24 Oct 2015 05:16:49 No.1983435 View Reply Report Delete

Quoted By: >>1983437

Yo /an/ me and my brother are drunk please settle an argument. What is this thing, is it a tarantula or a spider? We're in central Texas by the way. Thanks!

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Oct 2015 05:23:05 No.1983437 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>1983440

>>1983435
you're both right.
it's a tarantula and a spider.

bugguy !S0xZFbp/pY

bugguy !S0xZFbp/pY Sat 24 Oct 2015 05:30:38 No.1983440 Report Delete

Quoted By:

Eucteniza sp.
>>1983437
no.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Oct 2015 05:30:50 No.1983441 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>1983443

It's a mature male of a trapdoor species.
Not technically a tarantula, but stil a mygalomorph.
And yes, tarantulas are spiders

bugguy !S0xZFbp/pY

bugguy !S0xZFbp/pY Sat 24 Oct 2015 05:37:59 No.1983443 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>1983446

>>1983441
trapdoors are Ctenizidae not Euctenizidae.

you're talking out of your ass-stay out of the thread.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO Capture.png, 13KiB, 498x241

Anonymous Sat 24 Oct 2015 05:43:31 No.1983446 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>1983448

>>1983443

bugguy !S0xZFbp/pY

bugguy !S0xZFbp/pY Sat 24 Oct 2015 05:45:49 No.1983448 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>1983449

>>1983446
>common names.
>any sort of credibility.

if Euctenizidae are trapdoors everything in the ocean is a fish.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Oct 2015 05:47:41 No.1983449 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>1983451 >>1983453

>>1983448
>Thinks "trapdoor spider" is a taxon

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Oct 2015 05:49:05 No.1983451 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>1983452

>>1983449
Just ignore bugguy. He is a either a complete moron or a troll. he gets BTFO all the time.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Oct 2015 05:49:53 No.1983452 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>1983451
I'm giving him enough rope to hang himself.
again.

bugguy !S0xZFbp/pY

bugguy !S0xZFbp/pY Sat 24 Oct 2015 05:51:31 No.1983453 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>1983455

>>1983449
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trapdoor_spider
it is.

Ctenizidae are true trapdoors.
Euctenizidae only has a few members that make them.

they aren't even closely related.

it's calling everything underwater a fish.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO capture2.png, 26KiB, 852x246

Anonymous Sat 24 Oct 2015 05:54:50 No.1983455 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>1983457

>>1983453
>it is
it isn't a taxon.

it's a common name for a polyphyletic grade.

sound familiar?
cough *REPTILES* cough

bugguy !S0xZFbp/pY

bugguy !S0xZFbp/pY Sat 24 Oct 2015 05:59:06 No.1983457 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>1983458

>>1983455
common names have zero scientific credibility.
Ctenizidae is the only family of true trapdoors.

again
>it's calling everything underwater a fish.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Oct 2015 06:00:31 No.1983458 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>1983461

>>1983457
>Ctenizidae is the only family of true trapdoors.
you should get over on Wikipedia and tell them, I don't think they got the message.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_trapdoor_spiders

bugguy !S0xZFbp/pY

bugguy !S0xZFbp/pY Sat 24 Oct 2015 06:02:22 No.1983461 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>1983463

>>1983458
they did
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wafer_trapdoor_spider
>are a widespread family of spiders that lack the thorn-like spines on tarsi and metatarsi I and II (the two outermost leg segments) found in true trapdoor spiders (Ctenizidae).
>found in true trapdoor spiders (Ctenizidae).

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Oct 2015 06:04:17 No.1983463 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>1983464

>>1983461
>Some similar species are also called trapdoor spiders, such as the Liphistiidae, Barychelidae, Cyrtaucheniidae and some Idiopidae and Nemesiidae

bugguy !S0xZFbp/pY

bugguy !S0xZFbp/pY Sat 24 Oct 2015 06:06:37 No.1983464 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>1983465

>>1983463
>Some similar species are also called trapdoor spiders
because common names hold no scientific credibility.

some frogs are called toads and some toads are called frogs.

Ctenizidae are the true trapdoors, anything else just has a few members that do something similar.
again
>it's calling everything underwater a fish.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Oct 2015 06:16:44 No.1983465 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>1983468 >>1983470

>>1983464
>because common names hold no scientific credibility.
>Ctenizidae are the true trapdoors
one or the other.

either the common name doesn't describe a natural taxon or it does.

If it describes a group of unrelated taxa it's not a taxon.

"fish" is also not a taxon. It's a common name for a paraphyletic grade.

bugguy !S0xZFbp/pY

bugguy !S0xZFbp/pY Sat 24 Oct 2015 06:23:58 No.1983468 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>1983469

>>1983465
>one or the other.
it's both.

anything that looks like Ctenizidae can be called a trapdoor, only it's useless and inaccurate.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Oct 2015 06:26:55 No.1983469 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>1983474

>>1983468
>it's useless and inaccurate.
yes, that's why we have Linnaean names.

If you want to say that euctenizids aren't ctenizids you're concisely right.

but when you say euctenizids aren't trapdoor spiders you're ambiguously wrong.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Oct 2015 06:27:50 No.1983470 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>1983471

>>1983465
>"fish" is also not a taxon.
Class Pisces

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Oct 2015 06:29:36 No.1983471 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>1983470
>Fish are a paraphyletic group: that is, any clade containing all fish also contains the tetrapods, which are not fish. For this reason, groups such as the "Class Pisces" seen in older reference works are no longer used in formal classifications

bugguy !S0xZFbp/pY

bugguy !S0xZFbp/pY Sat 24 Oct 2015 06:30:31 No.1983474 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>1983476 >>1983480

>>1983469
Ctenizidae are the 'true' trapdoors because all other families that have that common name have it because they look like the, even if it doesn't apply to most of their members.

it's inaccurate to the point that if you were to use this in toxicology you could end up killing people.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Oct 2015 06:31:53 No.1983476 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>1983478

>>1983474
>it's inaccurate to the point that if you were to use this in toxicology you could end up killing people.
protip: anything that ends in -ology probably doesn't use common names much.

bugguy !S0xZFbp/pY

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 1408235148440.jpg, 43KiB, 500x412

bugguy !S0xZFbp/pY Sat 24 Oct 2015 06:33:23 No.1983478 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>1983476
psychology.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Oct 2015 06:34:46 No.1983480 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>1983482

>>1983474
>all other families that have that common name have it because they look like the, even if it doesn't apply to most of their members.
yet one of those families was named BEFORE Ctenizidae.

bugguy !S0xZFbp/pY

bugguy !S0xZFbp/pY Sat 24 Oct 2015 06:37:21 No.1983482 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>1983483

>>1983480
it doesn't matter much when they were named during that time because there was no one to hear about it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Oct 2015 06:38:39 No.1983483 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>1983484

>>1983482
yes, I forgot Victorian era science was published via drums and smoke signals.

bugguy !S0xZFbp/pY

bugguy !S0xZFbp/pY Sat 24 Oct 2015 06:41:18 No.1983484 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>1983485

>>1983483
a network of smoke/drum signals would be a whole lot faster than what they used.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Oct 2015 06:43:42 No.1983485 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>1983486

>>1983484
it doesn't actually matter since both families were named by the same guy, and he didn't describe Ctenizidae until 18 years AFTER he described his first family of trapdoor spiders.

bugguy !S0xZFbp/pY

bugguy !S0xZFbp/pY Sat 24 Oct 2015 06:46:07 No.1983486 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>1983487

>>1983485
you realize we're talking about the common name not the binomial nomenclature right.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Oct 2015 06:48:40 No.1983487 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>1983488

>>1983486
yep.

we're also talking about when the animals were discovered by science. And you can't really say Liphistiidae are called trapdoor spiders based on their resemblance to Ctenizidae when Liphistiidae was discovered almost 20 years earlier.

bugguy !S0xZFbp/pY

bugguy !S0xZFbp/pY Sat 24 Oct 2015 06:51:31 No.1983488 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>1983489

>>1983487
what I'm trying to find is whether he actually named families he discovered trapdoors or whether it was glued on it later by someone who doesn't understand arachnology.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Oct 2015 06:56:12 No.1983489 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>1983490

>>1983488
considering they all construct trapdoors and Europeans had almost 20 years to come up with the name before your "true trapdoor spiders" were known, I'd guess they were being called trapdoor spiders long before "true" trapdoor spiders were discovered.

best of luck hunting down the book it was published in though. Finding zoology from that era is usually... difficult.

bugguy !S0xZFbp/pY

bugguy !S0xZFbp/pY Sat 24 Oct 2015 07:01:55 No.1983490 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>1983491

>>1983489
>considering they all construct trapdoors
they don't, I think Ctenizidae is the only family with spiders that all make trapdoors.

all others just have a few members that make tube-like structures, they often don't even resemble those of Ctenizidae.

that might be why they're considered the 'true' trapdoors, otherwise I can't see the logic behind it but then again there might be none if
>it was glued on it later by someone who doesn't understand arachnology.
is true.

I wouldn't call anything but Ctenizidae a trapdoor, just like I wouldn't call anything but Bufonidae a toad.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Oct 2015 07:04:53 No.1983491 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>1983492

>>1983490
>they don't,

>Liphistiidae are rarely seen, tube-dwelling spiders that construct rudimentary trap-doors
>Although most species live in burrows, cave-dwelling species also fasten their retreats to the cave walls. Both burrows and retreats are sealed with woven doors.

also, the reference you're looking for follows:
>1869: On European spiders. Part I. Review of the European genera of spiders, preceded by some observations on zoological nomenclature. Nova Acta reg. Soc. sci. Upsaliae (3) 7: 1-108.
I'm not sure if it's in English.

bugguy !S0xZFbp/pY

bugguy !S0xZFbp/pY Sat 24 Oct 2015 07:09:48 No.1983492 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>1983494

>>1983491
Liphistiidae just make tube like structures, they aren't much like those of Ctenizidae, and like you already mentioned they aren't even true burrowers.

it's going to be impossible to find a complete version.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Oct 2015 07:14:17 No.1983494 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>1983495

>>1983492
>Liphistiidae just make tube like structures,
with trap doors.
>they aren't even true burrowers.
the quote says, "most species live in burrows."
>it's going to be impossible to find a complete version.
I've already found one.
the problem is the textbridge renders it potentially unsearchable.

I'm not going to read the whole thing to see if "trap" or "door" exist in the text when the text isn't clear and fully searchable.

you're welcome to it if you want some light reading though:
>http://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=hvd.32044107177446;view=1up;seq=7

bugguy !S0xZFbp/pY

bugguy !S0xZFbp/pY Sat 24 Oct 2015 07:17:35 No.1983495 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>1983496

>>1983494
>with trap doors.
that's pretty wide, I've seen Haplopelma sp make trap door like structures.

keyword: most

we'll just have to wait until the captcha monkeys have the entire book written down.

ps: Liphistiidae are so shitty I think I'm the only one ever that bothered to breed them once.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Oct 2015 07:22:45 No.1983496 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>1983497

>>1983495
>keyword: most
if you look back at Ctenizidae on Wikipedia you'll see:
>Most Trapdoor spiders live in burrows
>Most
also,
>Not all Trapdoor spiders use trapdoors.

consistency in use of a burrow and trapdoor apparently doesn't matter either way you look at it.

bugguy !S0xZFbp/pY

bugguy !S0xZFbp/pY Sat 24 Oct 2015 07:25:01 No.1983497 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>1983496
I can see it but seeing they're using common names to refer to it I'm not sure whether they're actually talking about Ctenizidae.

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