/co/ - Comics & Cartoons » Thread #76964422

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Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 16:37:49 No.76964422 View Reply Report Delete

Quoted By: >>76964638 >>76965501 >>76965568 >>76965615 >>76966850 >>76967889 >>76969021

Why aren't more cartoons animated like this now-a-days? Despite what people think, hand-drawn animation on paper is far cheaper than computer animation, and it takes less time to boot.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJBhErz5WV8

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 16:40:25 No.76964503 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>76968831

Big 3D is keeping 2D down by convincing everyone that 3D is what they want.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 16:44:32 No.76964638 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>76964422

Consistent skill levels.

There are not enough people out there that can adapt to the same animation style and keep it consistent. Yes, there are tons of animation schools out there, but they're mostly churning out visual development artists & character designers. Very few people nowadays can actually animate hand drawn, and at the same time conform to another artist's style.

3D eliminates that from the equation. You can also make camera changes relatively easily and swap out entire teams of animators without any noticeable effects.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 16:45:58 No.76964680 Report Delete

Quoted By:

Computers have and always will have more shortcuts to use. Although I do prefer traditional animation, it's just far more convenient for animators to use the advantages digital animation gives. Ultimately I think that animation can look good no matter what medium you use, as long as its done right.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 16:48:57 No.76964754 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>76964932 >>76965024

2D vs 3D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJxPjUo5-cI

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 16:56:08 No.76964932 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>76965520 >>76965829

>>76964754
CG can be much better than that and you know it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 16:58:20 No.76965024 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>76964754
That movie is from 1983, anon.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 17:14:47 No.76965501 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>76965665

>>76964422
What about drawing on tablets?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 17:15:31 No.76965520 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>76965665

>>76964932
That isn't CGI

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 17:17:24 No.76965568 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>76964422
i miss traditional animation to, but digital allows better consistency, that of course can be bad because it can also make things more stiff.
what's really weird is how they still bothered making 3D animated shows, they are actually way more expensive and on tv budgets they are still poorly animated

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 17:18:45 No.76965615 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>76964422
Lie. You can draw digitally from start to finish.

Sure, it is a bit more awkward, but if you manage, you save the paper costs. And only pay for the electricity used to power your computer and tablet.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 17:20:57 No.76965665 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>76965501
From what I've seen it really stifles the precision that you'd want when in-betweening. Watch a show like Motorcity for example and the linework's wobbling around all over the place. Graphics tablets have brought about really bad draughtsmanship.

>>76965520
It is.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 17:26:44 No.76965829 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>76966898

>>76964932
>that CG
>good
Awful.
It only "works" for that show anyways because of the art style.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 18:03:03 No.76966850 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>76968187 >>76968438

>>76964422
I thought you were talking about digital vs paper 2D animation, but a lot of people are talking about CGI.
Anyway, this is what Ian JQ said about it:
>pretty much the only people I met that use Cintiq are the background painters and colorists. Drawing and animating on paper is faster.

>http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3565204&pagenumber=38&perpage=40#post420789805

So it's still done plenty. At least in Korea.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 18:04:53 No.76966898 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>76967740

>>76965829
So what you're saying is that the style is what you dislike.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 18:34:40 No.76967724 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>76967906

Both anime and western cartoons are done in paper. The colorization and photography are done digitally, with some minor effects done in 3D (where traditional animation would be cost and time-prohibitive).

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 18:35:27 No.76967740 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>76966898
No, CGI is still shit.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 18:36:40 No.76967773 Report Delete

Quoted By:

you also need very talented people to do it

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 18:38:05 No.76967812 Report Delete

Quoted By:

There are, they are just not disney and they are usually ten minutes long.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 18:40:46 No.76967889 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>76968000 >>76968187

>>76964422
>hand-drawn animation on paper is far cheaper than computer animation
But thats wrong?
By nature, computer animation is cheaper because its faster, and time is money

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 18:41:22 No.76967906 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>76967724
If you watch the new Scooby Doo cartoon you'll see they seem to mix and match between paper and digital. At first I thought it was full episodes that were either one or the other but a recent one had both in the same episode.

It can be difficult to spot though, on account of the lazy, tween-friendly designs.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 18:44:57 No.76968000 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>76968031

>>76967889
I guess that's why budgets for modern movies have skyrocketed, huh?

Make sense next time.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 18:46:00 No.76968031 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>76968187

>>76968000
are you talking about 3D or 2D animation?
3D is way more expensive but 2D in a computer is cheaper than on paper

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 18:51:18 No.76968187 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>76968421 >>76968438 >>76968708

>>76967889
>>76968031
>2D in a computer is cheaper than on paper
Ian Jones-Quartey said drawing on paper is faster. >>76966850
But I assume he's comparing it to drawing on a computer and not using Flash. I assume something like Flash is the cheapest and fastest option.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 18:59:14 No.76968421 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>76968187
Drawing digitally is faster once animators are used to the software and are able to make full use of the tools available. For instance, mistakes can be cleaned up at the touch of a button compared to having to carefully erase the lines when using pencil and paper. Optimally, the entire workflow should be digital of course. It's not so efficient when parts of the process such as inbetweening revers back to paper. Also, animating in Flash doesn't mean the typically associated puppet-like animation is used. Many animators use Flash to draw frame-by-frame as they would traditionally. It's pretty much indistinguishable from pencil and paper animation in the final product.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 18:59:48 No.76968438 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>76968478 >>76968631

>>76966850
>>76968187
He seems to be just talking about Korea specifically.
Korea animates on paper for Steven Universe, but going the staff tumblr when they've done rough animation for the show, I can only find digital stuff. (when they hand it over to Korea they reanimate it in pencil)

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 19:01:02 No.76968478 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>76968438
*but going through the staff tumblr

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 19:05:40 No.76968631 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>76968708 >>76968732

>>76968438
This might be a dumb question, but how can you tell it's digital and not scanned? Because there's no paper texture?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 19:08:16 No.76968708 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>76968187
What he says there about pipelines is important too.

Right now the koreans just have to buy loads of paper and get to it. Swapping to digital would mean buying a computer and a graphics tablet for every animator and training them to use them and the software etc
>I think they just have their system that works.
>>76968631
Those are obviously digital brush marks to anyone familiar with them, I guess you could say there's no pencil texture.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 19:08:57 No.76968732 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>76968631
Do these look like pencil lines to you?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 19:11:50 No.76968831 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>76968880

>>76964503
>Refuses to use anything but 3D
>3D costs more than 2D
These dense mother fucks!

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 19:13:21 No.76968880 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>76968956

>>76968831
3D also brings in more profit.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 19:15:40 No.76968956 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>76969133

>>76968880
Has less lasting appeal. Disney classics will be able to be resold into infinity, I doubt Tangled will have the same luxury.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 19:17:50 No.76969021 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>76964422

I use both. There's pros and cons.

Pros to tablet:
> coloring. you can get consistent colors without worrying about resources, as well as implement textures and overlays
> mistakes can be erased. inking doesn't feel like you're on fucking jeopardy.
> layers allow for greater consistency and freedom
> saves on materials. the ~1k for a really nice cintiq seems daunting at first, but pays itself off when you aren't spending hundreds on copic markers, inking pens, paint, and brushes. seriously, a pack of 5 decent copic markers is about 50 bucks.

cons:
>sketching feels a lot more free and loose on paper
>precision with inking and better control over pressure

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 19:21:45 No.76969133 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>76969316

>>76968956
Toy Story is 20 years old, when exactly does the appeal expire?

Whether something lasts as a classic is down to its credentials as a film not the technology used to make it.

Sure you can post things from TS1 that look weird but does that make it a bad film? Nope.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 19:27:05 No.76969316 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>76969460 >>76969554

>>76969133
The story can be good but with today's generation of videogamers, people can only assess the quality of a work based on its technical details, they can't articulate things like story or tone or meaning, instead it's all cel-shading, framerate, texture maps. I see it all the time, any attempt to discuss the craft of animation falls apart because people can only think about animation in terms of videogame rhetoric.

Remember how many people freaked out about Elsa's hair "clipping" through her shoulder?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 19:30:57 No.76969460 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>76969316
>Remember how many people freaked out about Elsa's hair "clipping" through her shoulder?
I remember people talking about it, but I honestly don't remember anyone who said the movie or animation was bad because of that one flaw. To be fair, I did hang out on /frz/ a lot so there may be a selection bias.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 19:33:48 No.76969554 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>76969316
You are using 4chan/the internet as a yardstick, not the general public.

Yes some people freaked out over the hair clipping but do you also remember that Frozen went on to become the highest grossing animated film ever? As well as the third highest grossing of every film ever made?

A minor error/cheat doesn't mean anything, it certainly doesn't mean people will look back on the film in disgust. It's the same as a continuity error in a live action film, it's a tiny thing only a few people give a shit about.

I don't want to get all preachy but you are basing your world view on a small group of enthusiasts on the internet.

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