/g/ - Technology » Thread #51015302

>>51015302
it's not.. code readability was sacrificed in order to make coding as quick as possible for experienced programmers

it's actually a terrible starting language

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Oct 2015 01:24:20 No.51015522 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>51015507
>it's not.. code readability was sacrificed in order to make coding as quick as possible for experienced programmers
In what way did this happen? Is python better, or should beginners try something else?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Oct 2015 01:35:54 No.51015642 Report Delete

Quoted By:

Perl was based on typing the least amount of characters to do something where as Python and PHP are more structured and easier to read and understand. They also handle things like classes better where such things are more 'hacked' together in Perl. In Perl it's not uncommon for even experienced programmers to see code and have no idea what it's supposed to be doing.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Oct 2015 01:47:57 No.51015794 Report Delete

Quoted By:

Perl is pretty easy to learn, so long as start with the right book (Learning Perl, obviously, rather than the big fat Programming Perl bible/reference).

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Oct 2015 01:49:52 No.51015821 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>51015967

Perl is a little more hacky. It's called a "write only language" because nobody can read that shit you just wrote in Perl.

Python is a little bit better designed. Start with Python 3.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Oct 2015 01:52:17 No.51015849 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>51015975 >>51016178

web
PHP > Perl > Python

server scripting or desktop
Python > Perl > PHP

How is this even a question. Python and PHP make Perl obsolete.

inb4 fractals

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Oct 2015 02:02:22 No.51015967 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>51016000 >>51016176

>>51015821
FWIW, I know Perl and C, but find Python painful to read. I dunno why, but it just feels artificial to me. Like someone just made shit up just for the hell of it. I didn't get that kind of negative vibe with Lua or PHP though (but the later has too many damn similar functions, argh!)
incidentally, you can write Perl code that looks basically almost like C. In fact, it pretty much mirrors many of the C library and system calls.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Oct 2015 02:03:06 No.51015975 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>51016044

>>51015849
>living in the age where teenage britney was still a hot whore.

web
go > rust

server scripting or desktop
rust > go

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Oct 2015 02:05:31 No.51016000 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>51015967
>feels artificial

what's that supposed to mean?

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO neckbeard.jpg, 100KiB, 1000x800

Anonymous Mon 26 Oct 2015 02:09:20 No.51016044 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>51016200

>>51015975
>Rust

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Oct 2015 02:20:10 No.51016176 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>51015967
I don't know what you mean at all by "someone just made shit up for the hell of it".

Perl is great for text-processing (the regex is really easy to use), but everything else is a mess, like the whole OOP system is just grafted onto the language.

Python 3.5 and beyond will just keep getting better and better.

Here's some autism in Python 3.5 and C:

def getdups(l):
 '''Make a list of duplicates in a list.
 For instance, [1, 2, 3, 3, 3] -> [3, 3]'''
 dups = []
 seen = set()
 for e in l:
 if e not in seen:
 seen.add(e)
 count = l.count(e)
 if count > 1:
 dups += [e] * (count - 1)
 return dups

The C completely duplicates the Python logic, so I know it could be shorter:
http://codepad.org/siBpt2mm

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Oct 2015 02:20:15 No.51016178 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>51015849
php

>>51015302
i prefer ruby for web and scripting.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Oct 2015 02:20:21 No.51016179 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>in python class
>TURBO SHIT TURBO TURBO SHIT SHIT
>everyone turns heads
>guy is shoving giant "Perl" logo just like op's pic printed out on giant cardboard heap duct taped together
>JAVA JAVA JAVA JAVA JAVA JAVA
>walks 25 feet away and has an autism stroke
That's why

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Oct 2015 02:22:09 No.51016200 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>51016044
You're a home cause your mom owns an iPhone

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Oct 2015 05:39:04 No.51016452 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>51016539

>>51015302
>>51015302
>>51015302
Perl:
+ Syntax: Looks a lot like C, if done right, looks great and clean
+ Less concepts, easier to understand if you are a none programmer
+ More standards built in that you don't have to worry about without the need for a library, e.g. regex. I am not talking about high level libraries. They should not be part of the language at all.
>I once tried to do something in python that included regex could be done in perl without any library. I needed minutes just to figure out the name to use.
+++ OOP sucks. This is actually a good thing for newbies: If you are a noob and start with a language that pretty much relies on OOP, it is then that you will NOT become a good programmer. OOP is not a solution for everything but it is memed to be one. An experienced person knows when OOP will help, an unexperienced person will overuse it, an unexperienced person will produce code that looks like "magic" and that will be how they think it works: magic.

One thing about the meme that perl is a "read-only-language":
That is the silliest meme about a certain language ever. It applies TO ALL programming languages if idiots do not use their brian writing something, especially if it overuses OOP (see above)

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Oct 2015 05:41:00 No.51016475 Report Delete

Quoted By:

Perl is written by a NASA employee.
Python is written by a pothead.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Oct 2015 05:44:29 No.51016514 Report Delete

Quoted By:

Perl is my favorite dynamically typed language... and I wouldn't recommend it to a beginner. Perl is quirks upon quirks upon quirks.

Perl lets you write simple run-once programs really efficiently. But to truly appreciate its usefulness, you already must know how to program - otherwise you'll only find despair.

No idea about Python.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Oct 2015 05:45:55 No.51016529 Report Delete

Quoted By:

The POE framework wipes its ass with Twisted in terms of performance and features.

That alone is a good enough reason to use Perl over Python.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Oct 2015 05:46:34 No.51016539 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>51016547 >>51016597

>>51016452
>i did something in language i know well and it took me no time at all
>i did the same thing in language i don't know and it took me whole 2 minutes

wew

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Oct 2015 05:47:20 No.51016547 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>51016539
isap kontol juga

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Oct 2015 05:47:58 No.51016553 Report Delete

Quoted By:

Plack, POE, PDL

Also, RSA tattoo: http://www.cypherspace.org/rsa/

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Oct 2015 05:52:42 No.51016597 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>51016640

>>51016539
I did not write that. I actually wrote, that perl includes several standards that are REAL programming standards in a higher-level-interpreted-language that python offloads to libraries. This includes for example regex, system, time. It sucks as you have to think about it and as you need to include it at the start of your script making small things bigger than needed

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Oct 2015 05:52:58 No.51016599 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>51016608 >>51016687

>>51015302
Because it mirrors C in many respects, and C is an essential language to learn if you want to be anything more than some kind of script-monkey.
People complain that Perl is hideous, but actually, if you use strict and warnings, your Perl will be perfectly readable.
Anyone recommending PHP as a language of any kind needs to get fucked, because it's one of the most inconsistent and revolting languages in history.
Python is fine, but the forced indentation is revolting, and I dislike how OO it is (not that you can't write procedural python, of course).

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Oct 2015 05:53:53 No.51016608 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>51016655

>>51016599
This guy gets it!

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Oct 2015 05:55:30 No.51016622 Report Delete

Quoted By:

derp@derp $time perl -e 'print "Hello world"'
Hello world
real 0m0.003s
user 0m0.002s
sys 0m0.001s

derp@derp $ time python -c 'print "Hello world"'
Hello world

real 0m0.019s
user 0m0.013s
sys 0m0.006s

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Oct 2015 05:57:13 No.51016638 Report Delete

Quoted By:

I'm about a year into Perl as my first real language. I've learned a lot of basic shit about other languages like Python and JavaScript, but Perl is the first thing I've done actual useful work with (computational biology).

The syntax is actually a joy to write, and not nearly as bad as people let on.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Oct 2015 05:57:32 No.51016640 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>51016672 >>51017893

>>51016597
I disagree that modules are wrong. Putting stuff into modules (that are shipped with languages) simplifies language structure.

But I do agree that writing imports by hand is insanity, and in that capacity perl is definitely better (although really really useful stuff like List::Util or even say() is not included by default anyway).

Proper soluytion to that is to use editor that manages includes for you. The way Java does it. This is the best of both worlds - you explicitly specify which functionality you use, and you don't have to spend your time doing so.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Oct 2015 05:58:12 No.51016643 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>51015302
they're both shit, but i guess perl is even more shit

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Oct 2015 05:59:24 No.51016655 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>51016608
Well, it's not hard to get, honestly, once you've actually coded in a couple of languages.
It's not like perl is the best ever language to learn to start with coding, but it does seem like people who learn python to start with only ever use python, and people who begin with PHP develop crippling cases of Down's Syndrome.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Oct 2015 06:00:34 No.51016660 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>51015496
It means Perl is easy and you don't have to know anything about programming.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Oct 2015 06:02:13 No.51016666 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>51016690

>>51015302

Perl is one of the ugliest, shittiest languages.

It's extremely powerful thanks to 1) terse syntax with a billion powerful elements to it and 2) the amazing CPAN library, that has just about everything you would ever want to do.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Oct 2015 06:03:12 No.51016672 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>51016687 >>51017893

>>51016640
Simplified language structure isn't ideal for learning to code, though. You should begin at a very verbose level, so you actually understand how functions are constructed and what they do, instead of just importing a module and learning to call a function with the right arguments.
In any case, though, nobody uses only the core language unless they're a masochist. I prefer coding in minimalistic Perl without relying on any CPAN modules, and I still need to do things like use POSIX and Socket.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Oct 2015 06:05:12 No.51016687 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>51016732

>>51016599
Stuff like @{ $map{key} } is hideous. Stuff like ambiguity of {} being either an empty hash reference or an empty code block is hideous. The fact that Perl can't create file names on Windows with characters outside of system codepage (except for actually using windows syscalls to work with files) is hideous.

Perl is not unreadable. But a lot of it is hideous.

>>51016672
Well, I'm not really talking about newbies using Perl anyway.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Oct 2015 06:05:42 No.51016690 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>51016666
I have two issues with your statement.
One: Perl isn't shitty, or even ugly. That's just slander.
Secondly: the problem with CPAN is that a) it's a shitty package manager and b) using community-developed modules are a fucking terrible idea, because communities are fucking terrible.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Oct 2015 06:06:25 No.51016699 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>51016714 >>51016720

worth learning perl if you already know python and/or ruby?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Oct 2015 06:07:27 No.51016709 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>51015496
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9BNNRnjgJgI

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Oct 2015 06:07:41 No.51016714 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>51016699
Yes. We've embedded a perl interpreter as a Python C extension so that we can import perl modules in our Python scripts.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Oct 2015 06:08:18 No.51016720 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>51016699
Probably not if you're already content with Python. Python is Perl in a shiny plastic package.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Oct 2015 06:09:23 No.51016732 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>51016741

>>51016687
Hmmm. I'll grant you that things like {} having multiple meanings is pretty awful.
As far as the Windows filename thing goes, I haven't touched Windows in about a decade, and haven't ever programmed in it, but that does sound awful.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Oct 2015 06:10:37 No.51016741 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>51016732
Of course, it doesn't always have to be pretty to be good. Which it is.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Oct 2015 08:31:34 No.51017893 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>51016640
Well actually if you stay on topic (perl for beginners) than you are not talking about special tools but rather a simple text editor and an interpreter.

When I wrote my statement on libraries (or modules...) and OOP than I actually meant this
>>51016672 what some anon wrote.

Let me be clear on that:
To me it seems of to be of the highest priority for a beginner not to rely on libraries, and especially on libraries that are absolute basic and should therefore not be libraries, and not to rely on OOP. This makes bad programmers and creates bad practices if you 'learn' it from the very beginning (and that's what Python forces on you) without proper and complete knowledge of the basics.

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