/lgbt/ - LGBT » Thread #5110853

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Anonymous Wed 21 Oct 2015 21:08:05 No.5110853 View Reply Report Delete

Quoted By: >>5110861 >>5110922 >>5111496 >>5111502 >>5112349

Can I ask what this board's collective hatred of nonbinary is about?

If you can imagine having a male body and feeling like you are really a woman, what the fuck is so hard about the concept that some people's gender varies with time?

I know there are some special snowflakes out there, but this is a real thing that some people really feel in their hearts regardless of all the tumblr shills.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 21 Oct 2015 21:10:15 No.5110859 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>5111242

because trans people get shit on /lgbt/ literally all the time. biscum too. really the only people safe on /lgbt/ are fags and lesbeans
plus I think the destruction of the gender binary can also be socially destructive. but then again I don't feel strongly enough to say I hate NB people.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 21 Oct 2015 21:11:15 No.5110861 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>5110874 >>5110900

>>5110853
it does not exist, your gender is determined in the womb and doesn't change

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 21 Oct 2015 21:14:46 No.5110874 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>5110861
>gender

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 21 Oct 2015 21:20:27 No.5110900 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>5111242

>>5110861
That doesn't mean that intermediate genders cannot exist though.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 21 Oct 2015 21:27:28 No.5110922 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>5111167

>>5110853
Idk, I honestly think itd be cool to switch genders on different days. Like wear a suit and tie one day then wear a cute dress with heels the next.

I'm gonna stick to straight femme, but I like the idea.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 21 Oct 2015 22:32:57 No.5111167 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>5111224

>>5110922
that doesn't mean you switched gender, being a girl is not just about wearing dresses, fuck off

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 21 Oct 2015 22:46:18 No.5111224 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>5111256 >>5111614

>>5111167
True, but crossdressing just as a personal preference really isn't acceptable most places, so people who do so call themselves genderfluid (even if it's mostly about gender roles).

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 21 Oct 2015 22:48:46 No.5111242 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>5112349

>>5110859
>people are safe on 4chan
Like hell they are. No one is safe from getting shitposted.
>>5110900
Look up gray matters effect on gender identity. See there is no in-between with gray and white matter ratios over singular hemispheres in the brain. The identity of your neurological sex by matter types can vary during puberty but these variations usually revert back by the age of 22 and stay. Thats why i dont believe in nonbinary because it has no irrefutable evidence of its existence. Btw between fem and male brains of the same size, while side of gray and white matter are across different hemispheres, are equal.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 21 Oct 2015 22:51:34 No.5111256 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>5111224
Neither genderfluid or crossdresser are accepted by normal people. Also gender roles are bullshit thats confused with gender stereotypes.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 21 Oct 2015 23:52:17 No.5111496 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>5111514

>>5110853
I don't care about "gender" I care about sex, so if a guy is wearing a dress and wants me to call him a "she", well he can go fuck himself for all I care, I'm calling him a "he".

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 21 Oct 2015 23:54:40 No.5111502 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>5110853
There is absolutely nothing scientific to back it up.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 21 Oct 2015 23:58:48 No.5111514 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>5111542 >>5111627

>>5111496
Why? Unless you're having sex with them their anatomy is pretty much irrelevant. Most normal people would call a person by what they look like.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 22 Oct 2015 00:06:30 No.5111542 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>5111587

>>5111514
That's the point, I won't bend to their wishes if they aren't even trying to pass. Even worse if the fucker tries some nonbinary bullshit since it has no basis on biology.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 22 Oct 2015 00:16:01 No.5111587 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>5111862

>>5111542
So you really care about gender presentation, not sex.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 22 Oct 2015 00:21:43 No.5111614 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>5111621

>>5111224
calling yourself doesnt make it acceptable either. so why make up the weird name and try to pass it off as "gender switching"? it just makes everything more confusing for no good reason

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 22 Oct 2015 00:23:45 No.5111621 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>5111859

>>5111614
Genderfluid is accepted with the Tumblr crowd, while crossdressing still sounds like a fetish.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 22 Oct 2015 00:25:55 No.5111627 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>5111638

>>5111514
>some guy sees a transwoman that passes really well
>"woah check her out, shes really hot"
>is revealed to be male
>"watch out dude it's a man"

incorrect. sex matters to most people, and people will ultimately refer to a person based on their sex, even if they "look like the other gender". only some kinds of liberals, progressives, and certain homophobic conservatives will be militant about using the pronouns a person prefers, or having pronouns match someone's "gender identity".

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 22 Oct 2015 00:31:38 No.5111638 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>5111859

>>5111627
I'm just saying that's not really rational, and kind of creepy as well. If you're not having sex with them there's no reason why their genitals are relevant. If we're going to have social gender distinctions at all, it should go by what traits are apparent. If you're not in a situation where you're seeing their genitals, you shouldn't use them as the basis for what you call them.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 22 Oct 2015 01:22:40 No.5111859 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>5111878

>>5111638
honestly if youre gonna make that argument, then we shouldnt have gendered pronouns to begin with, because whats the point?

regardless, sex matters to people. im not gonna explain why because i dont care to, but it does, so theres no reason to fight it, or worse, pretend its not a thing

>>5111621
>tumblr crowd
which is a really small population that only exists on the internet and maybe portland

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 22 Oct 2015 01:23:18 No.5111862 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>5111587
I open an exception because I know how hard it is to completely pass as the opposite sex, not because I believe they belong to the other side of the fence.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 22 Oct 2015 01:27:33 No.5111878 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>5112052

>>5111859
>regardless, sex matters to people. im not gonna explain why because i dont care to, but it does, so theres no reason to fight it, or worse, pretend its not a thing
I know it matters to people, I'm just saying it's irrational.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 22 Oct 2015 02:01:37 No.5112052 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>5112730

>>5111878
oh. i must have gotten you confused with another anon.

sounds like you asked for a reason from someone, and found it irrational. what was the reason they gave you?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 22 Oct 2015 03:55:22 No.5112349 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>5113200

>>5110853
OP, people don't legitimze NB because of either personal beliefs or some misguided application of "science".

Take >>5111242 for example. MRI scans track "grey matter" in the brain as correlating with transsexualism. Here we have an individual blatantly confusing correlation with causation, while simultaneously assuming that "grey matter" is the sole determinant of gender identity. This person believes their argument is objective and rooted in infallible science and therefore unquestionably accurate.

Do you remember that scene in Django Unchained where Leonardo goes over some neurological pseudoscience to legitimize racism? This is the same thing. From an objective standpoint, there could easily be all array of contributing factors to GD that aren't known. They could contribute to varying degrees, or perhaps not all mirror one gender's phenotype; nonbinary is not "scientifically debunked" in any meaningful way, but the undereducated on this board will tell you it is.

Then come arbitrary beliefs about sex. Like the mental state must be tied to the physical state despite trans existing in the first place. Or how there is actually an argument in this thread that somebody with traditional understanding of gender governs the rational discourse involved.

I'm mtf and frankly infighting in the lgbt community is why I don't associate with it. Some of the pettiest, self-absorbed carping lunatics find refuge here.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 22 Oct 2015 07:40:37 No.5112730 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>5112052
>sounds like you asked for a reason from someone, and found it irrational. what was the reason they gave you?
I don't think they gave a reason per se, they just said that some people would call people by pronouns based exclusively on their biological sex, and I was saying that's irrational since most people you meet you won't ever even know their biological sex.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 22 Oct 2015 10:11:15 No.5113013 Report Delete

Quoted By:

Femboys and traps are alright by me. It's the fake nonbinaries who think getting short hair and fat means changing genders that piss me off.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 22 Oct 2015 11:30:03 No.5113200 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>5113219

>>5112349
NB should never have been allowed to happen, they basically swooped into the transgender movement, told actual transgender people what being trans is really about and how to tell their stores, and will probably kick out "binary" trans people in the future for not being radical enough

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 22 Oct 2015 11:43:19 No.5113219 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>5113200
the co-opting is borderline exploitive but the hostility doesn't accomplish anything and drags us all down.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 22 Oct 2015 12:46:26 No.5113329 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>5113370

It just makes them look bad in front of their cis buddies. As the great majority of cis people believe that a person's gender, the traditional idea of what it means to be a man or woman, is something that is deeply ingrained in a person's like, brain. So the idea of a man being "trapped in a woman's body" isn't that far fetched to them anymore, they can dig that. But then they start to get confused when that person doesn't pass perfectly, or they don't want SRS, or they want to have bio kids. Anything that doesn't fit the perceived formula makes them think twice about the legitimacy of the whole thing. So the trans community, who so desperately want to be accepted by their cis peers as one of them, see NB people as a threat to their plight because we're the worst of all.

At least, that's the vibe I get. Sorry if that read messy, it's early.

I've always had a "whatever" attitude to my own gender. I'm not the kind of NB who has days where they feel like a "she" and days where they feel like a "he" or a "they" or whatever. Most days when I'm getting dressed I'll just wear whatever I pull out of the drawer first, or dress for the weather. I wear makeup most of the time but sometimes I can't be fucked. I have a similar attitude to my hair. How I dress isn't a reflection of my gender because I've never felt like any particular gender, I just like what I like and do what I do.

But for some reason not giving a fuck makes me some sort of mentally ill snowflake.

On an interesting note, though, I only found out three years ago at 24 that I'm intersex. So that was a weird, maybe not unexpected development for someone who has been NB since they were a little kid.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 22 Oct 2015 13:00:59 No.5113370 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>5113329
you're intersex. So it's legitimate.

People who aren't intersex, adopt the NB/genderfluid label and I am not gonna cater to them in any way.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 22 Oct 2015 13:09:57 No.5113409 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>5118675

it's not borderline anything it -is- exploitive

This would be a social justice faux pas, if you tried to join the black community as a white person and tell them what being black really means. Black people have the right to exclude people from their community that are trying to co-opt/rewrite/appropriate their identity. Trans people don't have that privilege. Fuck social justice.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 22 Oct 2015 13:15:31 No.5113423 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>5113538

>wearing a dress
>look ma, I'm a woman! She and Her pronouns please!
>because being female is entirely attributed to the dresses you wear and the stereotype you try to act as

gender fluidity based on what stereotypical male/female personality features you try to pretend as and what pants/dress you wear is complete bullshit. Especially the snowflakes that insist that normies ought to know what pronouns they want.

>I FEEEEEEL like a he sometimes and sometimes I FEEEEEEL like a she sometimes

Unlike transsexualism, there's no actual scientific study that confirms gender fluidity to be a real thing.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 22 Oct 2015 13:59:44 No.5113538 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>5113547

>>5113423
there has never been a single causal relationship identified with any neurological deviation and transsexualism in any way, shape or form.

how hard is that to understand? arbitrary correlations in brain region size could easily be symptomatic of any other problem in the brain, especially when you consider how little we know.

please god tell me why you think brain size differentiation is a causal indicator of transsexualism because everybody on this board makes the same infuriating assumption

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 22 Oct 2015 14:04:44 No.5113547 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>5113566

>>5113538
try arguing that to the trannies who keep bringing up "muh brain scans that match tranny brains to cis female brains closer than cis male brains"

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 22 Oct 2015 14:12:09 No.5113566 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>5118710

>>5113547
ikr?
>be mtf
>be STEM
>other trannies attempt to bring up MRIs to defend themselves
>i have to sit here and watch some retard peddle pseudoscience onto the masses
>this person represents me and my interests

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 23 Oct 2015 18:25:12 No.5118675 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>5113409
yeah no, the black people who exclude light-skinned or mixed blacks because they're "not black enough" or don't suffer enough to count are just as awful as binary trans people who do this to nonbinary people, and there's plenty of black people who repeatedly condemn this sort of exclusionary behavior.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 23 Oct 2015 18:34:33 No.5118710 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>5113566
What does STEM have to do with it? It doesn't actually make you any more qualified than anyone else.

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