/lit/ - Literature » Thread #7261909

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Anonymous Wed 21 Oct 2015 01:11:00 No.7261909 View Reply Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7261910 >>7261917 >>7262030 >>7262050 >>7262092 >>7262151 >>7265822 >>7267019 >>7269530 >>7269954 >>7270134 >>7270607 >>7273311 >>7273628 >>7273651 >>7275002

What does /lit/ think about taking notes while reading?
Where do you do them and what do they do for you?
Do they actually help with understanding the text?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 21 Oct 2015 01:12:07 No.7261910 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7262050

>>7261909
>loan a book from uni library
>see this kind of shit

I hope these people die by being submerged in flashy fucking ink

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 21 Oct 2015 01:16:30 No.7261917 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7261993 >>7265628

>>7261909
I usually copy quotes and write other similar stuff in a separate notebook. I think that annotations distract from the text.

Would you splice strings of text and arrows into your favorite films if you could?

If you say that you would splice stuff into your favorite films, post screenshots of the text *embedded* in your film's file, not in a separate .srt

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 21 Oct 2015 01:47:24 No.7261993 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7262209

>>7261917
I find that if there is a character in a movie that is important for some reason that its a good idea to just hightlight their entire face luminous green, for ease of reference.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 21 Oct 2015 01:49:26 No.7262005 Report Delete

Quoted By:

I just Google the book and read other people's analysis on it if I feel like I missed something.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 21 Oct 2015 01:58:24 No.7262030 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>7261909
i remember from school the more intelligent someone was, the less they annotated, its 90% girls highlighting random shit

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 21 Oct 2015 02:04:30 No.7262050 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7262125 >>7269513

>>7261910
oh my god someone wrote in a copy I checked out of a farewell to arms and I wish I could find them and shove every insipid comment about whatever the fuck they misinterpreted down their throat

>>7261909
no, I can understand people taking notes on the side but I don't because I like immersion and flow and drawing intent from overall impressions and shifts, not from my notes. Makes it hard to write essays though, I gotta say. Just different styles tbh, here is no good or bad way. I do take minute notes on lectures though, roughly 6 pages per lecture regardless of the subject. never review them though. just helps me focus.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 21 Oct 2015 02:15:19 No.7262092 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>7261909
you shouldnt need sidenotes imo, i just use a single tab and write out lines on the computer straight away when i see them. this is retard stuff

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 21 Oct 2015 02:25:36 No.7262125 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7263862 >>7265381

>>7262050
>oh my god someone wrote in a copy I checked out of a farewell to arms and I wish I could find them and shove every insipid comment about whatever the fuck they misinterpreted down their throat

>everyone is wrong but me

Go to college, son. Or you will only grow more stupid as time passes.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 21 Oct 2015 02:35:51 No.7262151 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7273258

>>7261909

What the fuck is this? Holy shit some people are retarded.

I usually don't, like 80% of the time I won't even underline anything because whatever line I like so much that I would feel the need to underline I usually just memorize it unless it's a really long passage. The ones where I do take notes it's usually for very long or complex novels with lots of characters where I need to keep track of what is going on or who's who. Or if I'm writing an essay, for future reference. I'd never have the audacity to pull this kind of shit on a public book. I seriously think libraries should fine you because shit like this is damaging their property.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 21 Oct 2015 02:45:24 No.7262178 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7265463

i was in a survey poetry course last semester and i ordered the book off amazon and the bitch before me (it was bitch handwriting) would only highlight or annotate comments where the poems were referring to sex.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 21 Oct 2015 02:48:10 No.7262188 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7268364

im usually against it, but studying paradise lost right now so it is kinda necessary. it was a cheap 4$ copy. if i end up liking it i might try to find a dope hardbound verson

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 21 Oct 2015 02:58:16 No.7262209 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7262249

>>7261993
Funny you should say that because I've been experimenting with highlighting too.

Lately I've been going through my movies and highlighting every frame with neon blue, orange, green, or yellow. The cacophony of color is something only patricians can comprehend.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 21 Oct 2015 03:22:29 No.7262249 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7262256 >>7262331

>>7262209
what color do you highlight hulk from the marvel universe? it would change what type of hulk he is. if you dont keep him green, which would totally derail the stories intentions if you are confusing him with say, red hulk, you would expect a different character and different internal conflicts. and then if you keep him green you are unable to define his themes involved in the movie, so if he is a happy hulk, and you keep him green, instead of blue. you would confuse his mood with envious intentions. how do you get around this?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 21 Oct 2015 03:30:23 No.7262256 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7262334

>>7262249
i dont watch movies with the hulk in them

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 21 Oct 2015 03:30:30 No.7262257 Report Delete

Quoted By:

I mark difficult words when I'm reading in foreign languages, and sometimes I comment on passages that seem particularly interesting or beautiful to me, something that makes me think.
I also underline

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 21 Oct 2015 04:01:02 No.7262331 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7262334 >>7270105

>>7262249
ok well these same difficulties could be transferred to a different character, like iron man. lets say you highlighten an original "hot rod red" and gold ironman to a bluish color, you would think he was in space, when he was in fact in a coffeeshop. However, if you didnt highlight him yellow in the scene where he wouldnt stand up for the smaller guy , you would be confused as to whether or not he was in fact a coward ? you would just assume he is a tough guy and two dimensional. i really see some tough issues here

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 21 Oct 2015 04:02:04 No.7262334 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>7262331
>>7262256
was ment for this comment

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 21 Oct 2015 04:26:19 No.7262400 Report Delete

Quoted By:

I leave dashes at the end of lines/sentences that entertained me

I put footnotes in commenting on stuff, usually its when there's an allegory/implication of some sort

and I underline really nice aphorisms/descriptions

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 21 Oct 2015 04:30:33 No.7262408 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7265642 >>7271577

I actually love it when other people write in books. I mean, I couldn't ever, but I collect shit like that. You're basically seeing someone else's thought process, so that's pretty cool.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 21 Oct 2015 12:16:03 No.7263499 Report Delete

Quoted By:

I like to put small post it notes on the pages

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 21 Oct 2015 12:21:02 No.7263517 Report Delete

Quoted By:

I feel completely different.
Taking a poem or piece of prose apart passage by passage, annotating and interpreting your own way is kind of like chronicling what was important for you at this point in your reading of this work.

It's very Derrida to annotate, in my opinion

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 21 Oct 2015 12:32:01 No.7263537 Report Delete

Quoted By:

I don't, writing in a book just feels wrong to me.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 21 Oct 2015 14:21:30 No.7263862 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>7262125
I am in college...

She was drawing conclusions that didn't make sense from it, all sorts of bullshit
I don't think everyone is wrong but me, I just don't like it when they write in books like that's the only interpretation that can be drawn or their opinion is worth noting

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 21 Oct 2015 18:14:57 No.7264871 Report Delete

Quoted By:

Actually, I kind of like it when people leave notes in library books.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 21 Oct 2015 20:07:33 No.7265381 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>7262125
>books have objective interpretations

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 21 Oct 2015 20:09:03 No.7265386 Report Delete

Quoted By:

I put sticky notes next to passages that interest me. I don't like to write in books. Maybe it's a hangup I have from when I was a kid and would get in deep shit for damaging my books.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 21 Oct 2015 20:15:49 No.7265409 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7265544 >>7269834

I've learned to do it the way my father does it:

A small dot on the side of the page next to the beggining of the sentence or paragraph that you think is noteworthy. That's it.

Another thing is to bookmark the book with a piece of paper and write stuff down, either your own ideas or things like "page 32 elephants and pijamas" to remember a particular point you'd like to return later. You can then take the paper with you after you finish it or leave it inside if you intend to return to the book (for research, for example).

The small dot is great. My father has read a lot and I often pick books up from his library. I find those dots and I don't know exactly what he liked about a sentence, but I pay more attention to them. I think it's nice to live hints like this to the next reader, it adds to the history of the book, allows a different form of communication between readers and in a non-intrusive way either, just minimal.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 21 Oct 2015 20:32:30 No.7265463 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>7262178
Maybe she was a writing an essay and finding references to sex was relevant, friend.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 21 Oct 2015 20:51:05 No.7265533 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7265543 >>7265552 >>7265568 >>7273305 >>7273667

Annotation IN books is retarded unless they're 50 cent paperbacks bought used. Annotation in GENERAL however, is absolutely necessary. Though I only read poetry now, dunno about fiction. Only fiction book I've written any notes for was a page or two of Finnegans Wake, which was all I could stand.

Poetry on the other hand costs me some bucks to annotate. I usually write about 15-20 pages of notes a day, sometimes on a single poem. It's a good thing. Pic related, annotation for lines 2-5 of a short poem I really like. Just the prelimary explication and notes about what makes it good. Can share some points typed up if curious.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 21 Oct 2015 20:53:37 No.7265543 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>7265533

Page dedicated to first line

GM Hopkins "To his Watch" btw

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 21 Oct 2015 20:54:04 No.7265544 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>7265409

I like this. I do the same with a small star.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 21 Oct 2015 20:55:35 No.7265552 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7265557

>>7265533
fine post it cause your writing looks like sand scribbly

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 21 Oct 2015 20:57:05 No.7265557 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>7265552

It was actually a bluff. I'm too busy. Maybe another time my mate, I'll rock-ur-heart then

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 21 Oct 2015 20:58:50 No.7265568 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7265606

>>7265533
WOW your writing is trash man

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 21 Oct 2015 21:07:50 No.7265606 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7265639

>>7265568

did I ask for your opinion lol

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 21 Oct 2015 21:13:12 No.7265628 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7269576

>>7261917

>I think that annotations distract from the text.

You aren't even a discerning reader if you genuinely think this. Are you serious?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 21 Oct 2015 21:17:12 No.7265639 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7265657

>>7265606
you posted two photos of your notes. So obviously you care about showing them off.
So yes.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 21 Oct 2015 21:17:49 No.7265642 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>7262408
same, it feels as if I'm carrying a little bit of someone else's mind.

I scour sunday garage sales for these kinds of things.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 21 Oct 2015 21:20:56 No.7265651 Report Delete

Quoted By:

I do, in library books too tbh, but it's really just asking little questions along the way, making a note if it reminds me of something else, repeated motifs, questioning the quality of the writing if it's bad. I rarely annotate though, even when I do when I return to them I can barely read it since I wrote it so small and in smudged pencil so it's just gibberish, but I mostly just star passages I like to copy down before I return them. I definitely do not deface books like that, though I've never taken an English class so I've never had a reason to.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 21 Oct 2015 21:22:18 No.7265657 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7265732

>>7265639

No, I'm just trying to show you retards that there's one good way to annotate, and simply show that by annotating INSIDE the book you leave no possibility to actually get everything out of the book you're working with. Especially with poetry. But that went over your head a bit -- perhaps you should have annotated my posts before replying?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 21 Oct 2015 21:40:42 No.7265732 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7265755

>>7265657

>and simply show that by annotating INSIDE the book you leave no possibility to actually get everything out of the book you're working with.

Not that anon and this is a fair point when it comes to more detailed annotations but if you make it a principle never to leave any kind of annotations inside any work at all then you are honestly no better than your average fashion reader.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 21 Oct 2015 21:48:03 No.7265755 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7265792

>>7265732
>but if you make it a principle never to leave any kind of annotations inside any work at all then you are honestly no better than your average fashion reader.

Well I come from a library book-only situation, so I'm not going to be an ass and write inside the book, no matter the margins (which will still be too small.)

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 21 Oct 2015 21:54:06 No.7265792 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>7265755

>Well I come from a library book-only situation

Fairly certain you didn't mention that earlier, but if that's your situation right now then I get it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 21 Oct 2015 22:03:32 No.7265822 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7265847 >>7269473

>>7261909
>What does /lit/ think about taking notes while reading?
equivalent to mouth breathing and moving your lips while reading

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 21 Oct 2015 22:09:55 No.7265847 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>7265822

>that one pleb in denial over being a pleb

Anonymous

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Anonymous Thu 22 Oct 2015 03:30:17 No.7267019 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7270474 >>7271553 >>7273349

>>7261909

When I read for pleasure or school I take notes.

A lot of times my leisurely reading is still historical or chock full of science from fields which I'm not too familiar -- so notes are almost imperative. It's not only worked wonders for my memorization, but understanding. Sitting down, mulling over, and consolidating the main tenets of a novel scientific concept has become a crucial process for me.

But this PROCESS is always in some type of notebook or journal. Writing on the book is for filthy heathens and you should be ashamed.

I also frequently use post-it note tabs to mark pages which I find especially poignant or significant.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 22 Oct 2015 13:45:17 No.7268364 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7271493

>>7262188
This. Honestly, it gives me a chance to interact with the text. I'm reading Moby Dick right now and the copy I am using is a really cheap Norton edition, so I don't feel bad underlining, dog earring and highlighting. It's honestly made the experience that much better. That being said, I also own a hardback copy and would never even think to mark it up. It pisses me off that my sister wrote happy birthday on the title page.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 22 Oct 2015 17:43:39 No.7269473 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>7265822
>tfw you move your lips slightly sometimes when reading (mostly with dialogue I find)
>tfw you don't want to get snot on the book so you mouth breathe

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 22 Oct 2015 17:51:22 No.7269513 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>7262050
calm down here have a marlboro you fiend

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 22 Oct 2015 17:53:58 No.7269530 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>7261909
>breaking immersion
this is clearly not how the majority of fiction writers want their work to be consumed. I can understand it if it's your 4th or 5th time through a novel, or you wish to write analytically on it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 22 Oct 2015 18:01:13 No.7269576 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>7265628
>"You aren't even a discerning reader if you genuinely [have a different opinion than my own.] Are you serious?"

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 22 Oct 2015 18:12:24 No.7269632 Report Delete

Quoted By:

I make notes in some books, like my survival books are all annotated. Mostly though, I dogear books I'm going to keep and I write notes on post its and leave them inside the book.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 22 Oct 2015 18:45:06 No.7269834 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>7265409
I do the dots too, but I really like the bookmark idea, thanks for that

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 22 Oct 2015 19:07:12 No.7269954 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7270086

>>7261909
If you need notes to understand fiction, there is something wrong with you or the author. However they are quite necessary when you read books about science or history.

What is better? Write down note immediately or finish whole chapter and then go back and write down all notes?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 22 Oct 2015 19:51:34 No.7270086 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>7269954
Wait until you finish the chapter, but make sure that you mark off where you wanted to make a note so that you don't forget. Also kind of depends on the length of the chapter and whether or not you will be reading it in one sitting.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 22 Oct 2015 19:56:48 No.7270105 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>7262331
10/10

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 22 Oct 2015 20:03:49 No.7270134 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>7261909
on a first read on a fictional book? no, i dont think i ever have. after a second read, i might

with nonfiction, it depends how much im trying to take from the book. my crit theory today is filled with notes.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 22 Oct 2015 20:17:31 No.7270201 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7270391 >>7270487 >>7273327 >>7273339 >>7273609

Question from a shitty reader: Just what do I take note of? I can generally remember the progression of events in the plot, and describe what the chapter is about. I realize there's more to read into, but I don't know how to get to that next level of depth.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 22 Oct 2015 21:03:18 No.7270384 Report Delete

Quoted By:

Only on a second read with fiction, or underlining passages that I really love or find relevant. With nonfiction just when I've drawn connections the author hasn't. Also, only in books I own, so it happens rarely, as 90% of my reading is borrowed books.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 22 Oct 2015 21:05:18 No.7270391 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>7270201
This tbh, I would like to know as well.

I want to be able to enjoy the stuff I read more. I ain't that good of a reader.

Also tips on reading better would be nice.

absolute madman

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absolute madman Thu 22 Oct 2015 21:23:49 No.7270474 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7271553

>>7267019
>It's not only worked wonders for my memorization, but understanding.
I don't write inside books but I take selective notes in a notepad for this reason. Using your own hand written letter-forms creates a more personalised interaction which helps the brain internalise ideas.

absolute madman

absolute madman Thu 22 Oct 2015 21:25:47 No.7270487 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>7270201
>Question from a shitty reader: Just what do I take note of?
The best bits. :)

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 22 Oct 2015 21:47:23 No.7270607 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>7261909
this is literally why dfw off'd himself

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 23 Oct 2015 02:17:11 No.7271493 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>7268364
>It pisses me off that my sister wrote happy birthday on the title page

Asshole.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 23 Oct 2015 02:44:43 No.7271553 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>7267019
>>7270474
Agreeing with this, especially the latter point that being forced to take the time to hand-write helps form a stronger bond with the text.

Not only do your notes give you a source for future reference (personalized to your understanding of and interaction with the text), but they also help your retention and understanding by preventing you from glossing over any content, and by forcing you to ask yourself, "what's really going on here?" if you're to make any notes worth anything.

But I write in all my books. Margin notes, underlining, and brackets, along with more comprehensive notes in a separate journal.

>mfw I can see my progress in a book by looking at it from the bottom/side and seeing which pages are darker from the ink of my margin notes

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 23 Oct 2015 02:46:33 No.7271559 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>7271536
this is some elaborate joke

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 23 Oct 2015 02:52:30 No.7271577 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>7262408
>THIS

Yet, only written.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 23 Oct 2015 15:16:42 No.7273258 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>7262151
>What the fuck is this? Holy shit some people are retarded.
The OP pic? DFW did something like that, I believe, but I don't think OP is one of his.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 23 Oct 2015 15:29:11 No.7273305 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>7265533
>recognize a poster's handwriting
feels nice.

Tallis !!y+12CeFwYOo

Tallis !!y+12CeFwYOo Fri 23 Oct 2015 15:30:37 No.7273311 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>7261909
This is just a faggot who made a gay flag on a page.

I write comments in the margin.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 23 Oct 2015 15:33:35 No.7273327 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7273566

>>7270201
How old are you tbh

Tallis !!y+12CeFwYOo

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Tallis !!y+12CeFwYOo Fri 23 Oct 2015 15:36:17 No.7273339 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>7270201
>he takes notes while reading fiction

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 23 Oct 2015 15:38:19 No.7273349 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>7267019
>opus x, fuente fuente
patrician taste, my man

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 23 Oct 2015 16:32:22 No.7273566 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7274974

>>7273327
>tbh
might as well ask you the same thing pal

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 23 Oct 2015 16:47:09 No.7273609 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>7270201
I write definitions of words I don't know. Sometimes I'll try to sum up a complex idea in the margin. I underline important passages or anything that really strikes me, even if it makes me chuckle or seems shocking to a modern reader. I try to cross-reference recurring ideas, and take note of places where I think the writer may have been influenced by or is responding to another writer or text. I'll put question marks on things I don't fully understand with the intent of revisiting those later. So, all in all, I try to commit my understanding to posterity through the margins.

I never write in non-philosophical books though.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 23 Oct 2015 16:51:39 No.7273628 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>7261909
if it is poetry maybe,when it is a novel i never high ligth

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 23 Oct 2015 16:57:25 No.7273651 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>7261909
not gonna lie, i want to vomit when i see this
BUT i do take light notes in my books (art/history/theory type stuff). Light notes in pencil, which diagram argument structures and tick items off interest: kinda like trailblazing if i ever return to use the text. keeps me focused on meaning too . . . kek.
Giving it some thought, I could see where OP's pic would be very useful if it were a legit system of parsing a text which one needed to use for ones work. but there's always the problem of the map obscuring the world . . .

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 23 Oct 2015 16:59:32 No.7273667 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>7265533
god, that is bad writing m8, you gotta slow down and fix that shit

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 23 Oct 2015 23:30:15 No.7274974 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7275250

>>7273566
Well you're too young to have taken a literature class of any depth apparently for you to be able to ask such an infantile question, and I'm too young to still not have grown out of finding appeal in worthless memetics. Which is more pathetic?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 23 Oct 2015 23:38:57 No.7275002 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>7261909
These notes look so ridiculously useless. I make notes when I teach literature... sometimes in a novel I may underline a quote that really grabs me, just in pencil.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Oct 2015 01:17:02 No.7275250 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>7274974
Please, give your loins some time to recover from this markedly searing buttpain you're experiencing at the moment before answering, thanks

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sat 24 Oct 2015 08:11:10 No.7276143 Report Delete

Quoted By:

I write in all my books with pen. I'm Not competent enough to understand or pay attention otherwise.

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