/lit/ - Literature » Thread #7280942

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JW's literature Sun 25 Oct 2015 12:38:49 No.7280942 View Reply Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7281297 >>7282239

What is /lit/'s opinion on JW literature and their view on the bible?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 14:23:17 No.7281297 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7282116 >>7282121 >>7282239

>>7280942
Their view on the bible is taking verses out of context and applying their own meaning to them - which is usually something that completely contradicts the actual meaning of said verses.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 18:06:27 No.7282116 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>7281297
I must say I sort of agree, they look into things too hard

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 18:08:08 No.7282121 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>7281297
So they're like every single Christian group ever.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 18:09:06 No.7282123 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7282162 >>7282169

They're not Christians, not even Protestants. They're a different religion altogether, like Mormonism.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 18:22:28 No.7282162 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7282181 >>7283946

>>7282123
Well Christians are just people who believe in Jesus so... they really are Christians no matter on how they interpret the bible. Just as long as they believe in Jesus

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 18:27:24 No.7282169 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7282195

>>7282123

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 18:30:08 No.7282181 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7282200 >>7282207 >>7282267 >>7284078

>>7282162
>Well Christians are just people who believe in Jesus so... they really are Christians no matter on how they interpret the bible. Just as long as they believe in Jesus

That's not true.

Talmudic Jews "believe in" Jesus. Are Talmudic Jews Christians? Muslims "believe in" Jesus. Are Muslims Christians? Baha'i "believe in" Jesus. Are Baha'i Christians? Scientologists "believe in" Jesus. Are Scientologists Christians? Raëlians "believe in" Jesus. Are Raëlians Christians?

You don't have the slightest clue what you're talking about.

Stop talking.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 18:33:37 No.7282195 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>7282169
>"a believer in Jesus Christ"
>we're talking about a group that reject's the claim Jesus made to divinity
>"a believer in"
>"Jesus Christ"

Okay.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 18:35:50 No.7282200 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7282207 >>7282214

>>7282181
Look at the other image "People who follow Jesus's teaching", not just that they believe on him.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 18:37:48 No.7282207 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>7282181
>>7282200
JW follow Jesus's teaching. What makes anyone think JWs aren't Christian?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 18:39:24 No.7282214 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7282221 >>7282231

>>7282200
JWs don't "believe on him." Believing on Jesus means accepting the claim He made to be God. JWs are non-Trinitarian.

Plenty of other religions claim to follow Jesus' teachings.

So you're telling me with a straight face that Muslims, Baha'i, Scientologists, and Raëlians are Christians?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 18:42:06 No.7282221 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7282257

>>7282214
Jesus never claimed to be God. Being Christian means to believe on Jesus OR to follow his teachings.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 18:43:56 No.7282231 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7282313

>>7282214
It really all comes down to what your definition of Christian is I guess.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 18:45:37 No.7282239 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7282249

>>7280942
I was raised a jehovah's witness and only recently have distanced myself from the organization.

>>7281297
This person is spot on with how they interpret the Bible. They get around their contradictions by literally kicking you out for asking questions.

Their literature is wretchedly dull and ultimately says very little for as much of it as they release. I remember reading their book on revelations when I was probably ten years old and even then thinking that they were making some pretty big stretches in their interpretation of things.

These days their stuff is even simpler because they write it so it can translated by computer programs into 400+ languages.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 18:49:11 No.7282247 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7282263

I find talking to JWs very frustrating. I'm lonely and I love religious history and criticism, so I'll have friendly discussions with Mormon missionaries for hours, but Jehovah's Witnesses believe anything that's not the Watchtower publications to be the work of Satan. Hard to have a conversation when your interlocutor refuses to entertain any ideas but their own.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 18:49:19 No.7282249 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7282281

>>7282239
Did you get kicked out?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 18:50:35 No.7282257 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7282307

>>7282221
John 5:17, 18
Mark 2:5–7 (cf. Isaiah 43:25)
John 8:58 “I tell you the truth … before Abraham was born, I am!”
John 10:30 “I and the Father are one.”
John 10:33 “You, a mere man, claim to be God”
John 14:6
John 20:28
Jesus receives worship: Matthew 2:11; 14:33; 28:9, 17; Luke 24:52; John 9:38

etc. etc.

>OR to follow his teachings

So if a developer decides to build a house on a foundation instead of loose sand, he's automatically a Christian?! Wow, joining the church is easier than I thought!

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 18:51:24 No.7282263 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7282306

>>7282247
I feel you. When you make an argument they can't fight against they will return to an earlier argument you already proved them wrong on.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 18:52:08 No.7282267 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7282313

>>7282181
>Talmudic Jews "believe in" Jesus. Are Talmudic Jews Christians?
Jews don't believe in 'jesus', what makes you think that they do? They believe that there is a unique messiah who is unnamed unlike all of the other messiahs in the bible but they don't think that jesus fits the criteria. How did you come up with such a ridiculous claim?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 18:54:01 No.7282281 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>7282249
No, I never got baptized in the first place. Without that there's nothing they can really do to you. I had my only good friends all move away at pretty much the same time and decided that would be a good time to quit showing up.

One of my friends did the same thing and we still talk, I stopped hearing from the other two once they got word I quit attending meetings I guess. One of them already had very little to do with me because I wasn't baptized and it made him look bad.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 18:57:42 No.7282306 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>7282263
I generally don't like arguing about religion because people's feelings get hurt and both of you get nowhere and learn nothing. I do think there's space for healthy disagreement in a discussion, and that's usually what JW's refuse to entertain. Almost always Mormons are willing to sit down with me and hash out a disagreement about a finer point of Biblical interpretation. I find some of their theological ideas farfetched and of course they think I am mistaken as an atheist, but usually both of us end up the better for it, or at least I'd like to think so.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 18:57:53 No.7282307 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7282362

>>7282257
I'm pretty sure that the word Christian covers people who follow Jesus' teachings regardless of their belief in the trinity.

Jehovahs Witnesses specifically consider themselves Christians and believe that Jesus is the son of God.

I get what you're saying but I don't think the word Christian holds the exact definition to anyone else that you seem to think it does.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 18:58:47 No.7282313 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7282335 >>7282392

>>7282231
JWs are heretical beyond the pale of being Christian according to the early Christian Church's definition of what being a Christian is and is not as set down in the early and ecumenical councils and the Apostles' Creed and the Nicene Creed which are widely accepted even by the vast majority of Protestants.

>>7282267
The Talmud states that Jesus existed and gloats over the Pharisees having Him executed. Talmudic Jews "believe in" Jesus in the sense that they think that he once lived. Which is about what the JW view amounts to. I don't know how you can say that JWs are Christian and not also say that Talmudic Jews are Christian.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 19:01:56 No.7282335 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7282354 >>7282362 >>7282387

>>7282313
>Talmudic Jews "believe in" Jesus in the sense that they think that he once lived. Which is about what the JW view amounts to.

It's really not. They literally believe that Jesus is the archangel Michael and the son of God in human form.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 19:02:16 No.7282336 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7282340

SAVIOR OF OUR SKINES.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 19:03:18 No.7282340 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7282376

>>7282336
Go back to /v/. Lol

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 19:05:20 No.7282354 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7282372 >>7282387

>>7282335
They have entire books relating to the teachings of Jesus and believe his our savior from sin.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 19:07:12 No.7282362 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7282387 >>7282396

>>7282307
>I'm pretty sure that the word Christian covers people who follow Jesus' teachings regardless of their belief in the trinity.

I'm pretty sure it doesn't.

Question:

Are Theistic Satanists Christians? Yes or no.

>>7282335
>It's really not. They literally believe that Jesus is the archangel Michael
And Talmudic Jews think that Jesus was a servant of a seraph. What's your point here?

>and the son of God in human form.
And also like the Talmudic Jews, JWs also believe that Jesus was a mere creature.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 19:09:24 No.7282372 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7282396

>>7282354
>They have entire books relating to the teachings of Jesus and believe his our savior from sin.
So do Theistic Satanists. Are they Christian too?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 19:11:23 No.7282376 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>7282340
You meant /vg/ :)

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 19:12:28 No.7282384 Report Delete

Quoted By:

Their churches and houses always have very nice lawns and landscaping

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 19:12:58 No.7282387 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7282409 >>7282441 >>7282725

>>7282335
>It's really not. They literally believe that Jesus is the archangel Michael and the son of God in human form.
>>7282354
>believe his our savior from sin
>>7282362
>And Talmudic Jews think that Jesus was a servant of a seraph
Can you reference your wild claims? From the selections of the talmud i've read and the jews and rabbi's I've spoken to, jesus has no place in judaism. They reject him as their messiah, think that he blasphemed god and resent him for every jewish person who becomes christian as having lead them from the holiness of god, but that's it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 19:14:18 No.7282392 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7282483

>>7282313
Well hold on a second. Before the Council of Nicea there were thousands of people running around who held beliefs considered heretical by modern Catholics and most Protestants - that Jesus was just a man, that the Holy Spirit entered him upon his baptism, that he became the Son of God only posthumously, and so on. Many of these people believed things about Jesus' divinity that were very similar to what Jehovah's Witnesses believe today. Were those people not Christians either, even though they considered themselves followers of Christ?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 19:15:11 No.7282396 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7282483

>>7282362
>>7282372
They claim to be Christian, unlike (I assume) theistic satanists and talmudic Jews. They have registered corporations using the name "jehovahs Witnesses Christian congregation".

I don't know that there's a regulatory agency that monitors organizations that claim to be Christian and gauges their claim.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 19:18:21 No.7282409 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7282480 >>7282483

>>7282387
>Since God’s Word nowhere indicates that there are two armies of faithful angels in heaven—one headed by Michael and one headed by Jesus—it is logical to conclude that Michael is none other than Jesus Christ in his heavenly role.

This is from their website. I really can't be fucked to provide a source other than that, sorry.

I have no idea if what the sperg is saying about Jews is in anyway accurate.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 19:19:22 No.7282416 Report Delete

Quoted By:

I have friends who are Witnesses. Oh man, their church was so isolated, it felt very cult-like. They were only allowed to take people from the church out to dances or on a date, some being like really young or assholes just because of a lack of options. Once you do anything the church hates, the elders basically tear you apart.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 19:23:25 No.7282441 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7282480

>>7282387
I didn't even make those first two claims but:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_in_the_Talmud

>As a sorcerer with disciples
>Sanhedrin 43a relates the trial and execution of Jesus and his five disciples.[82] Here, Jesus is a sorcerer who has enticed other Jews to apostasy.

>As a sinful student who practiced magic and turned to idolatry
>Passages in Sanhedrin 107b and Sotah 47a refer to an individual (Yeshu) that some scholars conclude is a reference to Jesus, regarded as the messiah of Christianity. In these passages, Jesus is described as a student of Joshua ben Perachiah (second half of the 2nd century BCE), and he (Jesus) was sent away for misinterpreting a word that in context should have been understood as referring to the Inn; he instead understood it to mean the innkeeper's wife (the same word can mean "inn" and "hostess").[86] His teacher said "Here is a nice inn", to which he replied "Her eyes are crooked", to which his teacher responded "Evil one! Is this what you are occupied in?" (Gazing at women was considered sinful.) [87] After several returns for forgiveness he mistook Perachiah's signal to wait a moment as a signal of final rejection, and so he turned to idolatry. Some passages that have been identified by scholars as mentioning Jesus, as the messiah of Christianity, in this context include:[88]
(Read this whole section if you have a chance.)

Matthew 12:24
>But when the Pharisees heard this, they said, "This man casts out demons only by Beelzebul the ruler of the demons."

The Pharisees accused Jesus of being in league with the devil and Talmudic Pharisees think that Jesus was a witch.

>wild claims
Oh give me a break, drama queen.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 19:33:02 No.7282480 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7282502

>>7282409
Sorry about that I misinterpreted that post, I thought he was saying that jews believe that, not JW.
>>7282441
Are you supporting the first two claims or attacking my own post?
I claimed that jesus has no place in judaism. There are tenuous to certain references of christianity/christ in the talmud, but why are they in there? To prevent jews from falling away from god. It's like claiming that bel has a place in Christianity because the bible mentions him.
>Oh give me a break, drama queen.
(: sorry I just despise dumb and ugly protestants, especially those who are american.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 19:34:02 No.7282483 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7283937

>>7282392
Well once the church declared a belief a heresy, that pretty much cleared up the matter, didn't it? Just because some Christians held certain heretical beliefs doesn't make all heresy Christian.

>>7282396
>They claim to be Christian, unlike (I assume) theistic satanists and talmudic Jews. They have registered corporations using the name "jehovahs Witnesses Christian congregation".
Calling yourself something doesn't make it so. People make mistakes. People lie. People get confused. People abuse words. Sticking feathers in your underwear doesn't make you a chicken.

>I don't know that there's a regulatory agency that monitors organizations that claim to be Christian and gauges their claim.
It's called the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith.

>>7282409
>sperg

Matthew 5:22

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 19:37:09 No.7282502 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>7282480
>Are you supporting the first two claims or attacking my own post?
Why would I bother with claims that I didn't make and that have nothing to do with the line of argument we're on? Try to keep up.

>dumb and ugly protestants, especially those who are american
0 for 4
Good effort though.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 20:26:51 No.7282725 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>7282387
Have you ever seen does fliers of Jesus in your front door about a commemoration to remember his death? That commemoration to which i assisted to one of them once is all about how Jesus is the greatest because he sacrificed himself for us.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Oct 2015 02:08:31 No.7283937 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7283951 >>7283956 >>7283959

>>7282483
>It's called the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith.
Fuck off papist.

Tallis !!y+12CeFwYOo

Tallis !!y+12CeFwYOo Mon 26 Oct 2015 02:10:53 No.7283946 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>7282162
Yeah, no. That's what the protestants try to teach you right?

Arians ain't Christians.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Oct 2015 02:12:34 No.7283951 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7284866

>>7283937
>I enjoy being a heretic not in communion with God's One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church
Plebe

Tallis !!y+12CeFwYOo

Tallis !!y+12CeFwYOo Mon 26 Oct 2015 02:14:33 No.7283956 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7284866

>>7283937
>literally separating yourself, voluntarily, from the communion with God and the Gifts of the Holy Spirit passed down from Jesus to Peter, through all popes down to us
wow

Thomas

Thomas Mon 26 Oct 2015 02:15:42 No.7283959 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>7283937
You don't have to be a Papist to support that.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Oct 2015 06:04:45 No.7284078 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>7282181
>people unironically replied to this pedantic for sake of faggot

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Oct 2015 11:35:53 No.7284866 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>7283951
>>7283956
Why aren't you orthodox christians then?

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