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Did any nihilist, atheist, anti-natalist, or other severe contrarian ever actually WIN a large-scale public debate? I think of Oxford-style debates, which have clear winners and losers, as judged by an audience. I also think of the Chomsky/Foucault debate (who won?). More generally, what history vindicates, and doesn't. In contemporary Obama-tier political language, one might describe a group like ISIS as "nihilist", but /lit/ of course is smarter than this: ISIS is composed of true believers, theistic people who have been drawn to die for a principle that they believe in. All of this is antithetical to the above, despite how reprehensible their implementation is. ISIS are no "nihilists". I bet there's some example among the Greeks that I don't know about. I assume that the above is actually quite hard to do, because all of human evolution is railing against the conclusion of the futility of existence, is primed to hate and shun such a conclusion - hence 4chan's current contempt for fedoras, edgelords, etc. Making the above feat even harder is that people who are sincerely convinced of some flavor of futility, or of meaningless in godlessness, or of general irredeemable awfulness, will by the very nature of their sincerely held views be less motivated to try and win anything, since it's pointless.
Thomas
Christians, in this day and age, are actually more contrarians than atheists are. That's why Christianity is as big of a meme on /lit/ase Stirner is. Being edgy is becoming mainstream, which means being not edgy is now edgy. Morality is considered intolerance. Monogamy will probably be considered slightly offensive before the century is out.
Anonymous
>>7283878 Monogamy is already seen as an outdated, stupid thing for prudes by the younger crowd.
Thomas
>>7283883 It's seen as outdated more and more, but it will actually be considered edgy and offensive eventually. Just the way that women in good shape are being seen as offensive because they make fat people feel ashamed, enduring monogamous relationships will make people who can't stop sleeping around feel ashamed, it will be an extension of slut-shaming the way fit women are seen an extension of fat-shaming.
Thomas
Anonymous
>>7283903 This is ridiculous.
I guess they want a world where everyone will view themselves by their labels and handicaps and not as a person anymore.
Tallis !!y+12CeFwYOo
Thomas
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>>7283923 The likes go on and on, especially if you click to see more notes
But my point isn't about labels, it's about there's already a significant seed of people who see men who exclusively date women as offensive.
Anonymous
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>>7283893 nah fam but continue making up a stupid narrative
Anonymous
>>7283878 >>7283883 >>7283893 >>7283903 >>7283923 no doubt america has seen a pretty big shift in values over the past decade. but the vast majority of the world still maintains traditional values of some kind, usually tied to religion. and even in the most progressive countries, the actual number of queer people remains incredibly small.
most people will continue to live in conformity with what is seen as normal, but they will be discouraged from holding hateful attitudes towards those who aren't, and that isn't such a bad thing.
Anonymous
The Christian vs atheist thing ended when Darwin showed up. No I'm not talking about creationists, there's too many philosophical positions in Christianity that struggle under the realities of Darwin. For instance, the problem of evil has now become a trillion times harder to explain. "Free will" is no longer a working answer. Humans are now animals just like lions or chimps. We have the exact same feelings as them, so the problem of evil now extends also to monkies and lions. Why do they have to suffer? The old religious view of good and evil simply evaporate. A lot of Christian theology depended on there being a being a difference between humans animals beyond us just being a lot smarter. All the big discussions happened decades if not centuares ago. Modern debates about religion are simply a slow roll out of the secularism that has already won. This is why you see religion being stronger in less educated areas, because the victories of the past have no yet entered that sphere.
Anonymous
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>>7283903 >>7283923 >the contents of a single tumblr blog are proof that world society is declining okay buddy
Anonymous
>>7284434 Please stop talking any time
Anonymous
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>But /lit/ of course is smarter than this: ISIS is composed of true believers, theistic people who have been drawn to die for a principle that they believe in. I dunno if that's universally true of ISIS. Many of them are devot Muslims but a lot of them seem like thugs/locals opposed to invasions. Salafism is nihilism and ISIS even went a step further than Al-Qaeda with their blitzkrieg imposition of Islamo-fascism.
Anonymous
Anonymous
>>7284434 >For instance, the problem of evil has now become a trillion times harder to explain. "Free will" is no longer a working answer. Humans are now animals just like lions or chimps. We have the exact same feelings as them, so the problem of evil now extends also to monkies and lions. Why do they have to suffer? The old religious view of good and evil simply evaporate. A lot of Christian theology depended on there being a being a difference between humans animals beyond us just being a lot smarter. tbh if you think this kind of thing disproved Christianity you're not that bright. Learn what the difference between physics and metaphysics is.
Anonymous
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>>7283847 >because winning an Oxford debate (victory via public conviction and consensus) means that side is obviously better and more correct >because what better way to sort through the deep ocean of ideas than to have a particular group of people represent those ideas, and then have the validity of those ideas be dependent on how good one can debate by the audible or written word >because rather than take the time to read and study a new and/or opposing idea, it's easier to pick ideas like political candidates because political elections apparently bring the best and the most wonderful leaders the people need into office Vermin-supreme was obviously the best candidate because a bunch of people were convinced by how he argued. /sarcasm
Just sayin'. Debates are like wrestling matches. Ya got a couple of people arguing because everyone in the audience is looking for some entertainment, self-verification, or can't take themselves off the fence.
Thomas
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>>7284031 >but the vast majority of the world still maintains traditional values of some kind, usually tied to religion. Protestants tailor their religion to conform to values, not the other way around. That's how come they love capitalism. Fundamentalism is even tailoring to conform to the scientism outlook of only empirical facts mattering, and a hatred of philosophical or artistic narratives.
Anonymous
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>>7284542 The point where metaphysics stops making sense in any field of thought except itself is the point where the religion starts falling apart. It has more trouble justifying itself to people that do not already believe in the meta-physics. A good meta-physics model is compatible with real physics or at least some other field of thinking.