/lit/ - Literature » Thread #7285080

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Anonymous Mon 26 Oct 2015 12:47:25 No.7285080 View Reply Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7285104 >>7285120 >>7285191 >>7285327 >>7285617

Does the secular exist? Religions reach to all elements of life so there is no real room for a neutral secular life. All it is things in an atheistic sense, or just civil elements of life.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 26 Oct 2015 12:56:06 No.7285104 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>7285080
Weak.
Fuck off now.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 26 Oct 2015 13:02:26 No.7285120 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>7285080
>Does the secular exist?
in the head of the liberal/libertarian. They fail to see that their doctrines is far form being secular. they fail to see that EVERY doctrine is not secular.

secularism is the spookiest spooks.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Oct 2015 13:16:00 No.7285154 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>OP is becoming despooked
im crying ri now fam

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Oct 2015 13:26:38 No.7285191 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7285208

>>7285080

>Skwisgaar Skwigelf: Dis is dildoes. Doesn't he know there's no such things as religion?

>Nathan Explosion: You mean *you* don't believe in god. There *is* such thing as religion.

>Skwisgaar Skwigelf: Den proves it! Shows me a... miracle that religion exists!

>Nathan Explosion: Well, there's a bible right there.

>Skwisgaar Skwigelf: Oh. Well... then I guess I re-evalutates my life then.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Oct 2015 13:32:09 No.7285208 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7285605

>>7285191
Religion obviously does exist. The issue with classifying religion is that it's so varied that it's difficult to put it in a box and still allow for a way to be "outside religion".

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Oct 2015 14:14:47 No.7285327 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>7285080
That's mostly correct. Secular means something else in religious context, anything not under direct religious rule. Whether or not you toast your bread is a secular decision. Or more controversially, how a person organizes their government may be a secular process (I.e. church and state separation). Secular in the sense of not relating to religion in any possible way doesn't really exist.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Oct 2015 15:08:44 No.7285516 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7285603 >>7285605

Does God have free will?

IE, If the Christian god is omniscient, would he not know everything he is going to do in advance?
If omniscient, omnipotent, and omnibenevolent, would he not always necessarily take the same actions in any given situation?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Oct 2015 15:13:02 No.7285541 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>Religions reach to all elements of life

Yes, and do so with naive rationalism and naive interventionalism. Not something I'd brag about

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Oct 2015 15:19:58 No.7285574 Report Delete

Quoted By:

Ideals wear clothes. God, nature, science, the future, the afterlife, "me", peace, equality, money, good and bad of all sorts, freedom, victory, knowledge, my country, my party, my love, art, health, ecology, history, consciousness, tradition, revolution, autonomy... None of that exist except as excuses.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Oct 2015 15:26:45 No.7285603 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>7285516
>would he not know everything he is going to do in advance?
Yes, unless you adhere to the idea of self imposed limit and entering time.
> would he not always necessarily take the same actions in any given situation?
There are no situations that occur outside of time so a question such as this is beyond our reason.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Oct 2015 15:27:16 No.7285605 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7286523 >>7287514

>>7285208
Not really. Religion is most often associated with a belief in a creator, an afterlife and a soul, all with no evidence of any kind to support it.

Secularism is pretty much "lets do with less of that in our lives, shall we" to straight up atheism.
The idiot who believes that atheism is a full blown religion is the one playing with the terms usually accepted definition.

Communism isn't a religion either, but on the surface it can resemble one, behave like one.

>>7285516
Depends on what his creator wants him to have.

« 零 » !Ry9.IRR0KI

« 零 » !Ry9.IRR0KI Mon 26 Oct 2015 15:28:36 No.7285612 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7285623 >>7285644

THE SECULAR IS THE REVERSE PRIME GRADIENT TO THE TANTRIC ACTUAL MIRROR-BEING. THIS SHOULD BE OBVIOUS.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Oct 2015 15:29:51 No.7285617 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7285629 >>7287514

>>7285080
>Does the secular exist?
Complex question. In monotheism, not really. Secular space exists but it is carved out politically. God is still omnipresent. Pagan systems allow the secular, but the Gods are still able to exist outside the shrine/temple/consecrated area. In addition, pagan systems can make the secular holy, whereas monotheist systems tend to make the holy secular (meaning that the realm of holiness, the priest and sacred laws, overtakes the secular space on its own terms).

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 26 Oct 2015 15:31:02 No.7285623 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>7285612

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Oct 2015 15:32:37 No.7285629 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7285652

>>7285617
What a crock of shit

« 零 » !!PLXk645I/+U

« 零 » !!PLXk645I/+U Mon 26 Oct 2015 15:34:43 No.7285644 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>7285612
THIS GUY AIN'T ME; I SWEARS IT

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Oct 2015 15:35:47 No.7285652 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>7285629
Somehow not a convincing rebuttal.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Oct 2015 16:08:08 No.7285780 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7285966 >>7286536 >>7287514

Religious people think happiness belongs solely to religion. They can't think of purpose and happiness sans some God-figure.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Oct 2015 16:51:53 No.7285966 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7285978 >>7286188 >>7286371

>>7285780
we cant think the impossible, true

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Oct 2015 16:54:01 No.7285978 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7287413

>>7285966

And here you demonstrate the fundamental difference between retards and non-retards

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Oct 2015 17:36:47 No.7286188 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7287413

>>7285966
Ex-Christian here. Never been happier than now.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Oct 2015 18:19:58 No.7286371 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7286377

>>7285966
I'm happy because I love the people around me. I cherish my moments with them. I don't need religion for that.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Oct 2015 18:21:16 No.7286377 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7286406 >>7286424

>>7286371
>he thinks this isn't what true religion entails

i dont think ive ever seen an internet atheist whose idea of religion isn't literally south park-tier

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Oct 2015 18:25:48 No.7286406 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>7286377
Just saying, you don't need to believe in God to love your family and neighbors. Love and empathy can be secular just as much as they can be religious.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Oct 2015 18:30:26 No.7286424 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7286455

>>7286377
>he thinks true religion entails this

>>7286377
> dont think ive ever seen an internet atheist whose idea of religion isn't literally outh [P]ark-tier

Ooo, cute pop-culture drop, yo. What does this mean though? Do you think atheists just came out of a vat of non-believer goo? Most people know what religion is, atheist or theist. Your argument is going to be so weak. I can feel it already. Get your pastor on the phone to help you out.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Oct 2015 18:35:35 No.7286455 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7286475 >>7286536

>>7286424
I'm saying your idea of religion has influenced by all the fundie-hate that became trendy around the mid-2000s and don't have the slightest clue about the millenia of religious thought that preceded it.

You don't need to believe in God to be happy, love your family, all that stuff, but I think it's kektastic you think you're showing it to the man cause you call your mom once a week.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Oct 2015 18:39:42 No.7286475 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7286495

>>7286455
Are you implying that a secular concern for others and love of family is inauthentic? Because that's what it sounds like.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Oct 2015 18:43:45 No.7286495 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7286536

>>7286475
No, I'm implying a concern for one's own family and community is not outside the purview of religion.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Oct 2015 18:48:48 No.7286523 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7286545

>>7285605
> belief in a creator, an afterlife and a soul

Buddhism requires none of those things.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Oct 2015 18:52:00 No.7286536 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>7286455
>>7286495
That's fine. *Some* theists do as this anon points out >>7285780
Not all of course, just some. They get butthurt and I've even seen some anons on here claim happiness wasn't even important, hinting that it was sinful. "There's more to life than happiness!"

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Oct 2015 18:53:10 No.7286545 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7286553

>>7286523
It presupposes an afterlife and a soul, anon.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Oct 2015 18:54:41 No.7286553 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7286993

>>7286545
one of the tenants of Buddhism is literally acknowledging that there is no soul.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Oct 2015 20:26:53 No.7286993 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7287034

>>7286553
Than there is no reincarnation.
Is this part of getting off the wheel?

But even that would mean there was a soul and you can let it go after nirvana.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Oct 2015 20:34:31 No.7287034 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7287129

>>7286993
lol u are so confused

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Oct 2015 20:55:54 No.7287129 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7287514

>>7287034
I don't care if they don't use the term "soul"
Whatever it is that reincarnates to the next life, as a grasshopper or whatever. They're not referring to matter.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Oct 2015 21:48:46 No.7287413 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>7285978
>triggered
>>7286188
>Never been happier than now.
>I'll let that guy in a forum know that I'm happy as fuck, that'll show him!

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Oct 2015 22:07:10 No.7287514 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7287546 >>7288094

>>7285605
>Religion is most often associated with a belief in a creator, an afterlife and a soul, all with no evidence of any kind to support it.
Literally none of that is required as religions function without it.

>Secularism is pretty much "lets do with less of that in our lives, shall we" to straight up atheism.

I've had religion explained to me as an established way of life based on a worldview. There is no getting away from things that deal with religion the same as there is no getting away from things in reality.

>>7285617
>Secular space exists but it is carved out politically
Not really, religious social teaching can still heavily influence it.

>>7285780
>They can't think of purpose and happiness sans some God-figure.
Because there is none that is innate without there being a God-figure, whether you like it or not.

>>7287129
Buddhism Rebirth is not Reincarnation

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Oct 2015 22:12:04 No.7287546 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7287553

>>7287514
>Not really, religious social teaching can still heavily influence it.
Exactly. What I meant was that people in monotheistic societies have to make the conscious choice to create secular space and maintain it as such.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Oct 2015 22:13:13 No.7287553 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7287650

>>7287546
Well then it's best not called secular but atheistic spaces. Consciously atheist.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Oct 2015 22:30:53 No.7287650 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>7287553
No, that's not right. Monotheistic people created secular spaces in their societies for plenty of reasons- one of which is to allow freedom of religion, including atheism, but also to separate the powers of the church from the state. The fact that these secular spaces are frequently encroached upon is proof enough that they are not "atheist" spaces.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Oct 2015 23:57:14 No.7288094 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7288124 >>7288147

>>7287514
>I've had religion explained to me as an established way of life based on a worldview.

>Stoicism is a religion
>Republicanism is a religion
>Veganism is a religion
>Star Trek fandom is a religion
You poor lost child.

>They can't think of purpose and happiness sans some God-figure.
>Because there is none that is innate without there being a God-figure, whether you like it or not.
Oh, now you're just getting insulting.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 00:01:28 No.7288124 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>7288094
Stoicism, Republicanism, and Star Trek fandom aren't established ways of life based on a worldview.
Veganism is a weak established way of life but it doesn't have a worldview, it just makes a value judgement about non-plants' lives.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 00:05:36 No.7288147 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>7288094
To add

>They can't think of purpose and happiness sans some God-figure.
>Because there is none that is innate without there being a God-figure, whether you like it or not.
>Oh, now you're just getting insulting.

There is no innate purpose without natural ends in nature and natural ends in nature will logically end us with a God figure. Happiness can be found in many things but true happiness in a "inner peace" sense ala virtue ethicists cannot be had without natural ends in nature and natural ends in nature will logically end us with a God figure. Such a concept is often dismissed outright for its connection to God and providence.

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