/lit/ - Literature » Thread #7295255

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Anonymous Wed 28 Oct 2015 16:42:52 No.7295255 View Reply Report Delete

Some people of /lit/ want to "make it" as a writer. Fact is: The chances are slim.

There is writing which is better than yours.
There are authors who have read and written more books than you.
Why would anyone want to read your shitty fanfiction?
Do you even have anything to say?

Why do you keep on trying?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 28 Oct 2015 16:46:56 No.7295276 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7296374

Because it is so much more enlivening than cynicism.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 28 Oct 2015 16:47:26 No.7295278 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7295374 >>7295789 >>7297675

Quit projecting. I'm the best writer there is. The problem is that I was born in a time where people no longer have the focus to read.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 28 Oct 2015 16:48:44 No.7295285 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7295918

because writing is a skill that you can get better at, it isn't something set in stone

nothing is

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 28 Oct 2015 16:57:52 No.7295321 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7295918

>>7295255
>The chances are slim
>There is writing which is better than yours
Both of these are true, but they're almost entirely unconnected.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 28 Oct 2015 17:10:44 No.7295374 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7295728 >>7295918

>>7295255
>"make it"
Define this.

>There is writing which is better than yours.
"I returned, and saw under the sun, that the race is not to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, neither yet bread to the wise, nor yet riches to men of understanding, nor yet favour to men of skill; but time and chance happeneth to them all"

>There are authors who have read and written more books than you.
They're excellent readers then, doesn't mean they're good writers.

>Why would anyone want to read your shitty fanfiction?
Hohohoho.

>Do you even have anything to say?
Some excellent poets have nothing at all to say.

>>7295278
Then write short pieces, write tweetable things.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 28 Oct 2015 17:13:09 No.7295381 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7295918 >>7296374

better to try than to commit suicide tbh

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 28 Oct 2015 18:45:07 No.7295728 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7295741 >>7295918

>>7295374
>implying you can be a good writer without reading

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 28 Oct 2015 18:47:01 No.7295738 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7295918

>>7295255
There's no physical hardcap on how good a writer you can be, provided you have concentration; introspection and no retardation.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 28 Oct 2015 18:47:03 No.7295739 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7295918

>>7295255
Because I'm young and I know that I'm relatively good

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 28 Oct 2015 18:47:53 No.7295741 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7295853 >>7295862

>>7295728
>implying you can't

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 28 Oct 2015 18:51:58 No.7295758 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7295918

>>7295255
Why wouldn't I try? You don't have to be the best at something to enjoy it. Just knowing I made something, and that the next thing I make will be better, is enough for me.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 28 Oct 2015 18:54:31 No.7295767 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7295918

There's no real question of whether my writing is good enough or not. It definitely is. The problem is whether I care enough to keep doing it or just to keep drinking then commit suicide when life has become untenable. Existentialist blah blah whatever.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 28 Oct 2015 18:57:58 No.7295780 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7295918

>>7295255
>Fanfiction
No
>There are better writers than you
Oh well somebody's better at something than I am, I guess I'll just never care or have any interest in that something again!

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 28 Oct 2015 18:58:28 No.7295785 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7295918 >>7296374

Because I like to write and because I can't communicate myself to other people well so my writing is my way of trying to communicate to the world. That second reason is probably more sentimentality than reality.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 28 Oct 2015 18:59:14 No.7295789 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>7295278

I ... I read you, Sir

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 28 Oct 2015 19:09:02 No.7295821 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7295918

>>7295255
cuck logic in action.

This is why people who think like you never make it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 28 Oct 2015 19:15:50 No.7295853 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>7295741
You cant

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 28 Oct 2015 19:19:03 No.7295862 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>7295741
You can if you're some brilliant once in a hundred years talent. Otherwise you need to fucking read.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 28 Oct 2015 19:32:39 No.7295918 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7296277

>>7295374
>>"make it"
>Define this.
It's very loosely defined: I wanted to encompass the individual aims of all the writing /lit/erati.
>>There are authors who have read and written more books than you.
>They're excellent readers then, doesn't mean they're good writers.
>>7295728
>>Why would anyone want to read your shitty fanfiction?
>Hohohoho.
?
>>Do you even have anything to say?
>Some excellent poets have nothing at all to say.
Post some examples and excerpts.

>>7295381
Give up your literary goals, do another career, live a happy life, not chasing for a dream which you are not meant to reach. Stop being a narcissus.

>>7295738
>>7295285
see >>7295321
Being a good writer may not be enough to "make it".

>>7295739
:^)

>>7295758
Why don't you be a carpenter then?

>>7295767
I won't even answer that.

>>7295780
Do you have anything to say?

>>7295785
You, I like.

>>7295821
You are from the US?
>thinking like you is a guarantee for "making it"
>introspection and reviewing ones motivation against overwhelming odds is bad
>you will make it

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 28 Oct 2015 19:42:19 No.7295964 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7296036 >>7296131

>>7295255
And now comes the part where we make fun of reddit:
https://www.reddit.com/r/WriterMotivation/

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 28 Oct 2015 19:43:33 No.7295976 Report Delete

Quoted By:

Because I'm too amazing and not making it would be a crime to the world, not to me

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 28 Oct 2015 19:47:23 No.7295999 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7296374

I'm not trying to "make it" as a writer. My writing is for my own enjoyment, and to alighierically talk shit on people I don't like.

As Jude Fawley took up stonecrafting, to finance his studies of Greek and Latin, I too must take up a craft. I have chosen computer programming.

Writing will always be shit unless it is separated from the profit motive.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 28 Oct 2015 19:57:00 No.7296036 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>7295964
haven't clicked the link yet but there's basically no way it will make me madder than your image

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 28 Oct 2015 20:03:19 No.7296066 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7296073

>>7295255
That's some HD projection, fam

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 28 Oct 2015 20:04:57 No.7296073 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>7296066
points raised are still valid

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 28 Oct 2015 20:05:36 No.7296077 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7297690

quality isnt important and rehashes make money as well

proof : twilight is shit and made money. the hunger games steals things directly from battle royal with no attempt to hide it and divergence is just hunger games written by some one who had seen the matrix

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 28 Oct 2015 20:19:49 No.7296131 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7301767

>>7295964
>m/r/WriterMotivation/

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 28 Oct 2015 20:26:45 No.7296155 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7296197 >>7297525

>>7295255
I want to become a social sciences professor.
The goal would be to retire at 40 something and then live of a mixture of academic and more popular social science books.

I'd be happy to live as a relatively low-income writer, 25,000 euro a year, or the equivalent accounting for inflation in the future.

But that is just because I really enjoy writing about philosophy, history and the social sciences, an ideal life would be to write books in a bungalow in the sun on the outskirts of a medium sized southern european city.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 28 Oct 2015 20:28:19 No.7296166 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7297525 >>7297675

>>7295255
im smarter than you you piece of shit and i'd break a bottle in your face if I could.

putting your fellow man down... tsk tsk

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 28 Oct 2015 20:38:02 No.7296197 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7296332

>>7296155
Medium-sized cities are garbage. You want to be in the outskirts of a large cit or a small town.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 28 Oct 2015 20:39:22 No.7296201 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7296304 >>7296374

I am in a creative writing class- the first I've ever done. In this class, the teacher expects us to write Hemingway, when I brought up a story based in fantasy and fairy tale type of stuff (like Grimm's fairytales mixed with LOTR for example) She uh... well her response wasn't good: "I DON'T WANT ANY ELVISH FUCKING FANTASY!" Were her exact words. I was nevertheless amused, and in some way I felt motivated to pursue my story further. This story, I've been making up in my head ever since I was 9 years old. This is my brainchild and it is very much alive to me. How can I really be discouraged now? One day, I will get my story out there, and people will like it. Just my thoughts. If you have something you are passionate about, don't let others crush your dreams anon. Follow your dreams to your imminent death.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 28 Oct 2015 21:04:11 No.7296277 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7297525

>>7295918
Funnily enough, I do carpentry work part time. But I enjoy it, and I know at least 1 other person enjoys it, so why wouldn't I? Is self-gratification not enough?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 28 Oct 2015 21:10:27 No.7296304 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>7296201
That's pretty inspiring but you should probably stop though. For real, stop.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 28 Oct 2015 21:18:46 No.7296332 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>7296197
depends what you think medium is
I say medium is between 300,000 and 700,000 population

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 28 Oct 2015 21:29:36 No.7296374 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>7295255
Yeah you're definitely right. I think the only thing you can do is make stuff you like. If you get paid, great, but if you don't then you've still made something good. If you can't value that you're going to burn yourself out almost immediately.

>>7295276
>>7295381
>>7295785
>>7295999
All good posts imo

>>7296201
Is she a mcnugget because she's one salty chick.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 28 Oct 2015 23:26:54 No.7296751 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>7295255
>There is writing which is better than yours.
>There are authors who have read and written more books than you.
1. And there is writing better than theirs.
2. And there are authors who have read and written more than them.
3. loop to 1.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 28 Oct 2015 23:32:19 No.7296766 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7297525

>>7295255
>Why do you keep on trying?
Even if my writing isn't as good as other writers, it will still be better than yours. Burning someone else's candle out doesn't make yours burn any brighter.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 28 Oct 2015 23:43:59 No.7296789 Report Delete

Quoted By:

I actually have five or six top-tier plays in me, fam.
>not picking your battles in the formats
>not being a Renaissance Man
>not having enough of a schizotypal personality to be able to float into the perspectives of everybody around you

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 00:05:44 No.7296852 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7297525

I wrote a response but it was so good I decided to save it to disk and maybe work it into a story or something instead.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 00:12:18 No.7296870 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7297525

>>7295255
the only thing more absurd than our dreams to become writers is that you felt some need to post this block of cynicism

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 00:17:43 No.7296884 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7297525

You imply so much I don't really know where to start. I'll list everything, because I feel like it, but my main response is simply "why do you assume everybody thinks like you do?"

>There is writing which is better than yours.
There's bound to be someone better. The chances of you ever being the best at something are tiny. What is everyone else to do, lay down and die? How would that be any good?
Also, >implying the only reason why anyone does anything is to be the best at it

>There are authors who have read and written more books than you.
See above. There are also authors who have read less than I did. I'm also not done reading either so I'm not sure how this is very important.

>Why would anyone want to read your shitty fanfiction?
They wouldn't. I'm not concerned with popularity. Either way, >implying the only reason for writing is to be read >implying it is at all relevant whether or not a lot of people want to read a book, >implying a large audience is a sign of quality

>Do you even have anything to say?
Well, of course. Everybody does. The question is how relevant what I have to say really is.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 01:15:59 No.7297041 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>7295255
Because I like it. If you try hard enough at something you will become better. And if you keep on submitting and improving your writing style you will eventually get published. But mostly because I love writing

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 01:22:10 No.7297060 Report Delete

Quoted By:

It doesn't really matter if nobody likes the things that I write. The feeling that one has a place in this world and the pride that one takes in the craft are enough.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 05:30:02 No.7297525 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>7296884
I think you felt a bit offended by the OP and misread it.

>"why do you assume everybody thinks like you do?"
I don't, that's the reason why I ask. I got interesting answers.
>>There is writing which is better than yours.
>There's bound to be someone better. The chances of you ever being the best at something are tiny.
Did you even notice that I did not talk about writers being better, but of the writing being better? I tried to keep the discussion on an impersonal level which is more concerned with the quality of the work, rather than ego and self-worth.
>What is everyone else to do, lay down and die? How would that be any good?
I'd never tell anyone to lay down and die. That would be mean.
>>implying the only reason why anyone does anything is to be the best at it
Shouldn't one have at least a minimum of a commitment towards the audience?
>popularity fanfic implications
It's about "making it", not writing as a pure hobby. You need a bit of an audience to "make it". If you're just in it for the fun, or to keep your self-image as an artsy type in your circle of friends , then go for it, but this is not "making it".
>>Do you even have anything to say?
>Well, of course.
What is it? Please elaborate.
>Everybody does.
I'm not sure about that. Well-adjusted people seem to have less of a desire to write books.
>The question is how relevant what I have to say really is.
How relevant is it? If you'd post what you have to say, /lit/ could do it's own assessment of it's relevancy.
>I'm not concerned with popularity.
So you are superior in your basement?

>>7296870
>>7296766
>>7296166
You seem offended, too. Perhaps you need a more supportive environment than 4chan.

>>7296277
>Funnily enough, I do carpentry work part time.
My grandfather was a carpenter. He was a good man.
>But I enjoy it, and I know at least 1 other person enjoys it, so why wouldn't I?
By all means, continue.
>Is self-gratification not enough?
I don't know. If it's about "making it" I doubt it.

>>7296852
Please post it.

>>7296155
>25,000 euro a year
Have you thought of creating some ancestors?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 06:53:07 No.7297675 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7299133

>Fact is: The chances are slim.
Sure.

>There is writing which is better than yours.
There is always somebody better, at absolutely everything. That's why it's so much fun and adds more motivation, it's more than about a single ability. Besides, positive qualities are much harder to ... qualify. Can you really compare greats from different eras and genres and call one superior to the other?

>There are authors who have read and written more books than you.
Reading a lot will never make anybody a good writer. Writing a lot for the sake of it, won't either.

>Why would anyone want to read your shitty fanfiction?
I'd rather write a YA pentalogy about faggy vampires than a page of fanfiction.

>Do you even have anything to say?
Everybody does. Now whether it's worthwhile, that's almost impossible to determine.

>>7295278
If you can't convince people to read your writing, it blows.

>Why do you keep on trying?
It's more fun that anything else there is. Ambition makes life worth living.

>>7296166
If somebody is put down by that, he/she never had a chance in the first place.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 07:02:06 No.7297690 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>7296077

You must acknowledge a critical component of the success of those books before deriding them: luck. They happened at the right time and within an unestablished niche (relative to the audiences they were catering to). It's the most important reason why they did so well, and not something you'll be able to do yourself by just working at it. It's a gamble, essentially; "making it" as a writer, as the OP describes, is a gamble.

The sheer amount of rejections and discouragement many famous writers received throughout their careers and general lives is astonishing. I suppose that if you haven't fully accepted the fact that you are likely to join the 99% of writers who won't see more than a 1,000 book printing run and half sales of that (assuming someone important cared enough about your writing to give it any attention at all), and by some notion of insanity then decided to keep writing, you should probably give up and try something else, for your benefit. Publishing is usually a long and arduous process, and, again, relies on as much luck as it does them finding someone with anything substantial to express (whatever that may be, it's something they hope will sell). It's its own game apart from the writing itself, and something you would be forced to learn and play.

All of OP's questions and statements should be seriously considered if you are concerned with living off your writing in any way. Even those shitty books had "something to say" that somehow found relevance during their time, and blew up. By God, if you think you're going to be a successful writer just because you can write better than Collins or Meyer or any average airport novelist, you need a reality check. Some people here take it he's being cynical--I see it more as supportive than anything, because those who are confident in their decision to be writers will find reassurance upon evaluating his post, and shrug it off before continuing to write, as should anyone who is serious about being a professional writer. On the other hand, the deluded might finally see the light and pursue something else before making themselves any more miserable than they already might be.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 16:26:43 No.7299133 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7299143 >>7299914

>>7297675
>If you can't convince people to read your writing, it blows.

So far from the truth it hurts. Artists are rarely good businessmen. Unfortunately the latter is now required in order to be the former in this day and age.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 16:29:18 No.7299142 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7299914

>>7295255
It's much easier to make it as a writer than a musician for example.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 16:29:37 No.7299143 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>7299133
Take Tao Lin, for example. He sold six shares of stock for his second novel for $2,000 per share. He also had the knack of advertising himself all around the web and doing ridiculous live performances where he talked about whales.

Doesn't mean he's a good writer, just that he's good at making people believe he has something worth selling. And in a capitalism, that's all that matters.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 19:49:21 No.7299914 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7300124

>>7299133
>Artists are rarely good businessmen.
Sure, but I was talking more about getting read than getting rich from the writing. The former needing social competence and the ability to make people believe your shit. Or basically, what writing really boils down to: Communication.

While having this abilities doesn't guarantee that that writing will be worth reading, without them, it's unlikely that it is. If somebody can't communicate or find people who would communicate for him/her about how great the said art is, why would be the work itself any different?

>>7299142
Why? The market for music is much bigger, the opportunities to present yourself about the same and you're just as likely to get fucked by your publisher/label. Music also tends to get more attention, take a movie, if you made a good soundtrack, you're going to get more credit for it than the best screen writer.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 20:51:08 No.7300124 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>7299914
If a writer writes something good and only a few read his works that doesn't automatically mean he was a bad writer. There are many excellent writers who have a very small readership.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 21:00:16 No.7300147 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7303248

>>7295255
Keep on doing it because most people say I'm a genius after reading my stuff even got the most flattering comment this one time: "Your stuff is better than Blake's."

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 30 Oct 2015 08:35:35 No.7301767 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7303290

>>7296131
>George Lucas

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 30 Oct 2015 13:45:19 No.7302771 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7303297

>>7295255
Lets assume that Shakespeare is the greatest writer to ever live (a hefty assumption, even if he greatly important to western canon)

Should Joyce, Dostoevsky, Kafka, Eliot, Proust, Goethe, have never picked up the pen and lived their lives doing other things?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 30 Oct 2015 16:11:57 No.7303248 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>7300147
post an excerpt man

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 30 Oct 2015 16:22:14 No.7303290 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>7295255
B31NG TH3 B3ST 1SNT 4LL TH3R3 1S TO 1T

1N F4CT TH4TS 4 PR3TTY CH1LD1SH W4Y TO LOOK 4T TH1NGS
>>7301767
LUC4S M4Y B3 4 H4CK NOW BUT SOM3 OF TH3 TH1NGS H3S S41D OV3R TH3 Y34RS 4R3 SUPR1S1NGLY SM4RT

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 30 Oct 2015 16:24:00 No.7303297 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>7302771
>Should Joyce, Dostoevsky, Kafka, Eliot, Proust, Goethe, have never picked up the pen and lived their lives doing other things?
Even if it discouraged them from writing anything, depriving the world of their writing would have been worth it just for stopping all the talentless hacks from also getting published. There's nothing wrong with a little artistic triage for the greater good.

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