/sci/ - Science & Math » Thread #7611661

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Anonymous Fri 23 Oct 2015 21:30:23 No.7611661 View Reply Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7611721 >>7611768 >>7611826 >>7611834 >>7611864 >>7612440 >>7613380

What is the difference between these computer-related degrees and what do they prepare you for?

>Computer Science
>Computer Engineering
>Electrical Engineering and Computer Science
>Mathematics and Computer Science
>Computer Information Systems

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 23 Oct 2015 21:34:38 No.7611672 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7611684 >>7612489

They prepare you for flipping burgers. Don't fall for any of the computer degree memes and get a math degree.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 23 Oct 2015 21:38:10 No.7611684 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7611709

>>7611672
Why?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 23 Oct 2015 21:48:48 No.7611709 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7611739 >>7611857 >>7612489 >>7612881

>>7611684
I'm not him but as someone who is a math major that is looking for a career in computer science after I graduate the answer is rigor. All of those other options have gotten a bad reputation of not being rigorous because there are many CS graduates that when they go to a job interview cannot even program solutions to simple programming problems.

But to the general answer
>Computer Science
If your program is good you will learn a lot about algorithm analysis. You will end up being good at math and also very creative when it comes to solving interesting programming problems. If your program is bad or american then you will learn how to do hello world in python.

>Computer Engineering
I myself see no problem but this also has a bad reputation. It is said that this is half CS and half EE. This means that you don't really specialize in anything and end up even dumber than anyone in CS or EE.

>Electrical Engineering
I do not have much specific knowledge of this however a lot of people I know see it is a very good program that creates good and intelligent people.

>Mathematics
This... is not for everyone. You will definitely get the most out of your education because any math program will be a very rigorous program that will not pass retards. Most Math programs have programming courses but there are many advanced topics that won't be covered so you must be able to learn on your own and get interships.
>Computer Information Systems
What is this?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 23 Oct 2015 21:54:19 No.7611721 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7611742 >>7611768

>>7611661
You left out

>Software Engineering
>Business Information Systems

Both are variations of other degrees you already listed and somewhat common.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 23 Oct 2015 22:00:03 No.7611739 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7611759

>>7611709
Thanks for the detailed response. That was exactly what I was looking for.

I'm guessing that you're European.

>If your program is bad or american... etc.

In the US, there are a lot of integrated courses for CS with other disciplines, hence my listing them. It seemed as if you were ignoring that specification and I'm wondering if the same thing is offered abroad.

https://www.math.ucsd.edu/programs/undergraduate/ba_math_comp_science.php

This is an example of one of those integrated bachelors degrees (the one I am most interested in; is that a course worth pursuing?). Math and Computer Science both interest me and I figure the CS angle would make it an employable degree.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 23 Oct 2015 22:01:40 No.7611742 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>7611721
Oh, right. I've seen those around, but they are not offered at my local universities.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 23 Oct 2015 22:07:15 No.7611759 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7611785 >>7611857

>>7611739
I had never seen a program that merges mathematics and computer science.

Being honest, it looks very good. Any program that gets their students to the level they can do complex analysis is a rigorous program. That proves that you will learn all the math you will need to be good at computer science. The computer science classes are standard: using java to learn OOP, Data Structures, Algorithms, etc.

What makes it stand out is definitely the level of mathematics that it will get you. A 4 year program that will teach you very complex and abstract mathematics and also teach you all you need to know about computer science will probably be hard. In my opinion it is good, if you are planning to join then be prepared to put in a lot of effort.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 23 Oct 2015 22:11:13 No.7611768 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7611785 >>7611819 >>7612786

>>7611661
>>Computer Science
garbage
>>Computer Engineering
something about learning how to make processors and shit. you get a job designing chips at different places maybe
>>Electrical Engineering and Computer Science
idk, probably programming embedded systems
>>Mathematics and Computer Science
muh algorithms
>>Computer Information Systems
meme degree

as >>7611721 pointed out

>Software Engineering
actual legitimate programming, if you're serious about programming highly complicated programs then take this.
>Business Information Systems
meme degree

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 23 Oct 2015 22:20:03 No.7611785 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7611791 >>7611802

>>7611759
Cool. I am well-prepared for putting in any amount of effort. My social life is mostly non-existent.

What exactly would you move onto after finishing such a program? Software developing? Academia?

>>7611768
I rarely see software engineering offered at top universities. I dropped out of Berkeley recently to switch from humanities into STEM and am pretty familiar with the UC system; I've never seen Software Engineering offered at those universities. Are you sure that software engineering isn't a "meme degree?" What are you even on about? I understand this is 4chan and we're all supposed to be cantankerous autists or whatever, but I would appreciate something beyond low-functioning autismo.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 23 Oct 2015 22:26:04 No.7611791 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7611800

>>7611785
>What exactly would you move onto after finishing such a program? Software developing? Academia?

Both are valid really, it will depend about what you care. You may want to make money so you go to do software developing. Or you may be a genius and think that the software developing you will be doing at companies will be no more than trivial things so you will decide to go to grad school.

It all depends on how good you are at the end of the 4 years and where your priorities lie.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 23 Oct 2015 22:30:30 No.7611800 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>7611791
I have no problem with academia. I would actually prefer that to going purely commercial. I just wanted to know if the degree is practical beyond preparation for graduate school. Thanks for the good advice!

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 23 Oct 2015 22:31:19 No.7611802 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7611804

>>7611785
>I rarely see software engineering offered at top universities.
Waterloo

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 23 Oct 2015 22:34:38 No.7611804 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>7611802
I doubt some university in Canada is anywhere close to being on the same tier of relevance as one in California for CS.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 23 Oct 2015 22:49:52 No.7611819 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7611842 >>7611845

>>7611768
Wait a second. /g/ told me that Software Engineering was the meme degree and CS was actual legitimate programming

Who is telling the truth?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 23 Oct 2015 22:54:21 No.7611826 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7611842 >>7611902

>>7611661
>Computer Science
>Mathematics and Computer Science
more math and theory focused, gives you the tools to succeed but you still need to learn to code.

>Computer Engineering
basically how to build microprocessors.

>Electrical Engineering and Computer Science
doesn't exist./its computer engineering.

>Computer Information Systems
pretty much a general IT degree on how to manage servers and networkts etc.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 23 Oct 2015 22:58:00 No.7611834 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7611869 >>7611902

>>7611661
>>Computer Science

Piss easy watered down middle school level classes filled with mouth breathing manchildren that somehow manage to struggle with their jokework.

>>Computer Engineering

EE applied to computers

>>Electrical Engineering and Computer Science

An older title for CE

>>Mathematics and Computer Science

All the challenging advanced math classes replaced with pathetic CS classes and math classes aim at math teachers and actuaries

>>Computer Information Systems
>>Information Technology

Interface monkeys; a peg down from software monkeys. Typically found in for-profit scam colleges.

>>Software Engineering

Misleading name as it's not engineering. Software monkey training that should be done in a trade school.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 23 Oct 2015 23:00:58 No.7611842 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7611861 >>7614199

>>7611826
Actually EECS is common at elite universities like Berkeley and MIT. But I get your point. I'm guessing that EECS is just called Computer Engineering at other universities. Based on what others are saying I'll likely apply to transfer into CS or Math&CS.
>>7611819
I'm OP and hardly know much about these fields, but based on what I've learned, software engineering seems to be offered at less prestigious universities. It's not even offered at any major universities in California, to my knowledge, and we're the center of that industry tbqh.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 23 Oct 2015 23:04:29 No.7611845 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>7611819
Software Engineering usually focuses less on the mathematics and abstract theory, and more on programming, problem solving and engineering best practises.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 23 Oct 2015 23:09:59 No.7611857 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7611872

>>7611759
Why complex analysis? You do not need that to be a programmer...

>>7611709
Not all CS grads fail... I would only say that about 15-20% of grads are like this and that is simply because they are not extremely bright or are not very analytical or logical thinking. I would not put the blame on the program that they came from.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 23 Oct 2015 23:12:40 No.7611861 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7611880

>>7611842
OP what do you want to with your degree. What job and pay would be good?

I just graduated with CS and Math degree

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 23 Oct 2015 23:13:40 No.7611864 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7611880 >>7611902

>>7611661
Most responses are from retarded non-CS people.

CS is CS and not math for a reason.

A good CS program will introduce you to systems classes like OS, Networking, Databases, Compilers.

It also teaches you programming.

And you learn theory, ie/ algorithms & data structures and automata, AI, programming languages.

Along the way you have to take a bunch of rigorous math classes (intro level for math majors). If it turns out that you like math, then you have the foundation to take upper level math classes as well. If not you can focus on more software engineering classes.

This is the point of a computer science degree.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 23 Oct 2015 23:16:27 No.7611869 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7611879 >>7611886

>>7611834
I have a hard time believing CS or CS&Math are really that bad when they tend to make the most money at my local universities in California.

http://cse.ucsd.edu/sites/cse/files/cse/assets/studentaffairs/BS%20Computer%20Science%20ChecklistFA2015.pdf

Compare this with other major: https://career.berkeley.edu/Survey/2014Majors

The only degree that makes more money and is more employable is, I believe, EECS.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 23 Oct 2015 23:20:51 No.7611872 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7611907

>>7611857
>Why complex analysis? You do not need that to be a programmer...
Keep telling yourself that to not feel bad about your math curriculum in CS being Calc I.

Not everyone is content with working as a code-monkey, doing trivial iphone apps that literally a 14 year old can do (have you seen that THINKR video?). Some people want interesting careers. Maybe you want to work in research working on physics simulators. Well, complex analysis can be applied to physics. Being more specific: hydrodynamics and thermodynamics. Knowing that plus good programming knowledge could get you a very nice paying job doing really complex simulations for a prestigious lab somewhere. That sounds exciting.

>Not all CS grads fail... I would only say that about 15-20% of grads are like this and that is simply because they are not extremely bright or are not very analytical or logical thinking. I would not put the blame on the program that they came from.

Well, I would. You want to know why? Because if a program allows people who are not analytical or logical thinking to get a degree, a real actual degree that they can use in the real world to get jobs, then the program is baby level.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 23 Oct 2015 23:24:03 No.7611879 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>7611869

CEOs make mad cash too but a Business major is still a joke.

The fact code monkeying is paid so well is because not many people want to do it or care to put in the time to learn it rather than the difficulty of subject matter (which is highly trivial). Many code monkeys are physics and math majors and never studied coding/cs in school.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 23 Oct 2015 23:24:32 No.7611880 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>7611861
Basically around $100k in California seems vital. I'm open to academia or software developing. Honestly, I'm pretty ignorant of the field having taken only some calculus and an introduction to java, hence my posts.
>>7611864
Thanks for some practical advice. I could tell there was some butthurt in my thread.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 23 Oct 2015 23:32:06 No.7611886 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7611907 >>7611908 >>7611914

>>7611869
Just a comment.

All of the careers listed for CS in
https://career.berkeley.edu/sites/default/files/pdf/Survey/2014CompSci.pdf
say the words "Software" and "Engineer".

Isn't it a bit bad to only be employable in literally just one industry?

That is kinda like putting all your eggs in one basket.

>In the year 20XX, a crash in the software industry is reported. Everyone is losing their jobs and the economy is losing millions. All CS graduates in the entire universe report bankruptcy.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 23 Oct 2015 23:37:28 No.7611902 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>7611834
>>7611826
>>7611864
What about systems engineering?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 23 Oct 2015 23:41:41 No.7611907 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7611911 >>7611945

>>7611872
OP here.

It sounds as if, based on what you're saying, a Math&CS degree could lead to far more interesting opportunities than just CS. So far that's looking the most interesting to me to study. Do you have any other tips?

>>7611886
There is risk like that for any profession except maybe education, which I was originally going to pursue, but got redpilled on very quickly and dropped out. If you go on the other Berkeley link, you'll notice something similar for other majors. Engineer bachelors become engineers, economics and business students become analysts or accountants, arts majors become teachers or plebs, etc. As far as I can see, computers and their applications aren't going away anytime soon.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 23 Oct 2015 23:41:57 No.7611908 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7611919

>>7611886
It said 72% are employed. How many work in engineering? Also 72%? That's fucking horrible. It was higher ten years ago.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 23 Oct 2015 23:43:39 No.7611911 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>7611907
Forgot grill pic.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 23 Oct 2015 23:45:05 No.7611914 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7611924

>>7611886
You think software is just going to disappear?

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 23 Oct 2015 23:48:33 No.7611919 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7611940

>>7611908
See the other majors: https://career.berkeley.edu/Survey/2014Majors

If I recall correctly, CS is actually the best major there in terms of employment besides EECS. Economic recovery my ass.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 23 Oct 2015 23:48:47 No.7611921 Report Delete

Quoted By:

And odd mix of IE, OR, and business classes

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 23 Oct 2015 23:50:45 No.7611924 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7611933 >>7611934

>>7611914
>In the year 20XX...
>New technologies for software development make any task easier and more time efficient
Companies can effectively drop half of their development staff and stay good. Remember that code monkeys are the first to be become irrelevant too.

>The long popularity of CS among average people created an inflation of CS graduates.

Half of CS graduates are now literally unemployable as all positions are filled.

Taken from /g/
>Most of programming is now out-sourced to India because it is legal to pay them with shit.

>Market crash. Now kids are no longer impressed with novelty apps and videogames.

Very few companies (the ones on the top) survive this. Half of all software companies declare bankruptcy

Jus' Sayin'

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 23 Oct 2015 23:55:33 No.7611933 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>7611924
Implying these unemployed CS grads will have a tougher time finding a job then liberal arts majors correct?
Implying new paradigms dont emerge?
Implying CS doesnt evolve into something else by "20xx".

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 23 Oct 2015 23:55:52 No.7611934 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>7611924
If you do not suggest an alternative, I don't see why anyone should take you seriously. All you're doing is writing shitty speculative fiction.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 23 Oct 2015 23:58:31 No.7611940 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7611973

>>7611919
>https://career.berkeley.edu/Survey/2014Majors
The recovery is well among the 0.01%. Even doctors, lawyers, accountants, and bankers are having a hard time. Also CS is a symptom of the tech book. Most grads these days are having a hard time getting jobs.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Oct 2015 00:01:11 No.7611945 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7611973

>>7611907
>It sounds as if, based on what you're saying, a Math&CS degree could lead to far more interesting opportunities than just CS. So far that's looking the most interesting to me to study. Do you have any other tips?

Yes, you will have more opportunities. However, in software engineering, everyone has to climb the ladder. No good position will be given to you without less than 5 years of experience. This means that everyone will have to do code-monkey work, it doesn't matter what degree you get.

However, if you get hired at a good company that does more than simple apps, when a relatively complex tasks is handed to your department and you show proficiency over the other employees (which will be likely as you will have a stronger background in mathematics), the first person to be given a lead position will definitely be you.

My other tips are:
Use your time wisely. It is a competitive industry, you are not only competing with CS grads but also CE, EE, and even pure math people like me. Get internships, work on big projects on your own. The general idea is that after you graduate you must have something to show more than just your degree if you want to get a job in your first try.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sat 24 Oct 2015 00:20:29 No.7611973 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>7611940
Yes, that's why I'm getting sick of these babyboomers calling us lazy. They are by far the most privileged—and I mean this in the original sense of the word, without the baggage it carries today—generation that has ever lived. We're feeling some pre-war economic blues, fam.

>>7611945
Ok, thanks for redpilling me on all of this. I do not mind if I have to do codemonkey work at first. At this point, I just need to get my foot in the door. The most crucial part for me is earning a living. The interesting work can come later.

On /adv/ I started a similar thread which concluded more quickly than this one... the only remaining question I have is what sort of open source projects a CS student should get into, but I think that could easily merit its own thread.

Thanks again for the tips.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Oct 2015 07:34:57 No.7612273 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7612446 >>7612449

You left out physics my friend. I have 6 mandatory programming courses

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Oct 2015 11:00:13 No.7612440 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>7611661
>Computer Science
Writing enterprise software
>Computer Engineering
Sucking dick
>Electrical Engineering and Computer Science
Sucking dick while writing enterprise software (aka parallel programming)
>Mathematics and Computer Science
Inventing solutions to complicated problems
>Computer Information Systems
Sucking dick while wearing a suit

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Oct 2015 11:04:56 No.7612446 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>7612273
>waah waah I have to take 6 babby python and matlab courses

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Oct 2015 11:06:39 No.7612449 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>7612273
6 programming courses? Most CS majors take less. They do one or two and then it is math and theory. You may pick some extra ones like Programming Paradigms, for instance.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sat 24 Oct 2015 11:38:40 No.7612489 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>7611672
>>7611709
Fuck off you memeing fucking wankstain faggots. You're not taking OP away. He's coming with me.

OP, pack your shit, you're majoring in EE where the real shit gets done. Ignore all of these try-hard cunts.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Oct 2015 12:06:56 No.7612514 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7612704

>Computer Science
Involves neither computers nor science, necessarily. You learn about the theoretical background for things computers do. You talk about algorithms, Turing completeness, data structures, computability, that sort of thing.

>Computer Engineering
Computer engineering prepares you for hands on computer (mostly hardware) stuff.

>Electrical Engineering and Computer Science
Usually, things means Elec Eng with some theory and more programming thrown in. Electric engineers deal with circuits and things like that.

>Mathematics and Computer Science
Exactly what it says. Computer science is basically math, so instead of knowing an entire standard curriculum in pure mathematics, you'll learn stuff about comp sci - usually the stuff you want, so it can be programming, operating systems, development, etc and not just the pure, abstract computer science stuff.

>Computer Information Systems
Less abstract, more hands on cmputer stuff. Exactly what it says. Networking, etc.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Oct 2015 14:42:45 No.7612704 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7612718

>>7612514

Computer science gets a bad rep cus all the retards who want to "make games" decide to go there. I think I've had class mates who were legitimately mentally retarded in 1st year of cs.

I'm doing a phd in big data/data science now. Mine is related to finances cus I want to work as a quant analyst. I know a guy who does a phd same but he looks into finding degenerative deseases in the human dna. We both have done cs and no prior knowledge of finance or biology.

Also there are guys in my department who do phds in image processing and artifical inteligence.

At the lower level cs is saturated with idiots who can do only mobile apps but at the top you got people who do some serious shit.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Oct 2015 14:53:08 No.7612718 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7612723 >>7612740

>>7612704
Without the pure math background your models might be discarded by biologists. This is a problem with CS. Also finance is okay. As long you can make money for a company you're doing well.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sat 24 Oct 2015 15:00:35 No.7612723 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7612771

>>7612718
>cs
>less rigorous than biology

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Oct 2015 15:07:13 No.7612740 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7612771

>>7612718

not sure what pure math has to do with that. finding degenerative diseases in dna would probably mean running billions of dna code on a software and finding patterns. This needs minimal biology knowledge, it's mostly a machine learning problem which is a sub-field of cs

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Oct 2015 15:25:24 No.7612771 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>7612740
Pure math has nothing to do with that but you learn more tools that you could apply to that than in CS. I guess there is a reason your friend couldn't go directly into it and had to do a PhD first.

>>7612723
That is... actually arguable. You are not mathematics or physics, it is not obvious if the rigor of your classes is really high. In fact... as much as /sci/ hates biology some may even side with it on this one.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Oct 2015 15:32:07 No.7612783 Report Delete

Quoted By:

Computer Engineer and Computer Scientist here
Stay mad faggots

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Oct 2015 15:34:03 No.7612786 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>7611768
>something about learning how to make processors and shit. you get a job designing chips at different places maybe

This is what I want to do.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Oct 2015 16:34:00 No.7612881 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>7611709
>I myself see no problem but this also has a bad reputation. It is said that this is half CS and half EE. This means that you don't really specialize in anything and end up even dumber than anyone in CS or EE.

Can you elaborate on why this is so bad? I am a current EE major but was thinking about switching to computer engineering

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Oct 2015 18:10:04 No.7613028 Report Delete

Quoted By:

Computer Engineering major here.

Just wanted to say that we're Electrical Engineers with less focus on power.

That's all.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Oct 2015 22:40:02 No.7613380 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>7611661
check the ACM computing curricula
>http://www.acm.org/education/education/curric_vols/CC2005-March06Final.pdf

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Oct 2015 23:54:24 No.7613530 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>7613638

Why the heck does EECS and computer engineering get so much hate here? You might as well have a word filter on /sci/ that replaces all mention of computer engineering with gender studies.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 01:00:44 No.7613638 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>7613530
>I'd like to apply for the software developer position
>>what degree do you have?
>none
>>have a nice day

Software development is littered with the self taught who get butthurt when employers want more than a code monkey. Many of these clowns believe they know it all when they've never produced anything more complex or scalable than a website for their uncle the car dealer.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 08:53:19 No.7614186 Report Delete

Quoted By:

Is a master's and/or PhD worth it in a field like CE?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 09:10:30 No.7614199 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>7611842
At Berkeley for EECS, we are very good and all these retards saying American universities suck are autistic. I'd like to see any other university in the world try to beat us or MIT and Stanford
Fucking yurofags

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