/tg/ - Traditional Games » Thread #43370871

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Anonymous Fri 30 Oct 2015 12:17:34 No.43370871 View Reply Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43376985 >>43377213 >>43377672 >>43377933

Why is wanting power seen as so villainous within fiction?

Guys like Alexander the Great, Julius Caesar, and Napoleon are seen as heroes in our culture.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 30 Oct 2015 18:26:53 No.43376985 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43370871
>Napoleon
>no clarification of which Napileon
Specify which one when talking about Napoleon, you uneducated swine.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 30 Oct 2015 18:27:14 No.43376992 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43377044 >>43377072

>>43376806
And UK as the nation who literally couldn't stop paying despotic absolute monarchies to attack the only liberal nation in Europe.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 30 Oct 2015 18:27:39 No.43377001 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43376337
It entirely depends on where you live. Here in the UK, Napoleon is seen as a tyrant and the monarchy is, generally, seen in a very positive light - especially historically.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 30 Oct 2015 18:28:37 No.43377024 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43376969
>Conquerors were once heroes.
Pretty much. The best example of this are the crusaders. I'm not on my own computer right now so I can't post it, but there's an American WW1 propaganda poster about "Pershing's Crusaders", which compared the army of General Pershing to that of righteous crusaders, freeing the promised land (Crusaders) from the ruthless infidels that plague it (Germans).

Go to any European or North American country today and ask them about those exact same crusaders, and most people will tell you about evil white xenophobes who for literally no reason at all attacked peaceful and scientifically advanced brown people and stole everything they had, making this society of super-scientists shit forever.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 30 Oct 2015 18:29:19 No.43377044 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43377147

>>43376992
Could you please elaborate on that?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 30 Oct 2015 18:30:21 No.43377072 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43377099 >>43377161 >>43377350

>>43376992
>liberal

Holy shit read a book.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 30 Oct 2015 18:30:48 No.43377083 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43377121 >>43377362

>>43376906
Mate, no one in Britain gives a fuck about the war of 1812.
The most most people know about it, is that we burnt down the white house.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 30 Oct 2015 18:31:20 No.43377099 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43377072
Not that guy, but how about you read a book? The entire French Revolution was the struggle of liberalism against Ancien Regime despotism. That is liberalism in its original sense, not the mutilated term the Americans use.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 30 Oct 2015 18:32:24 No.43377121 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43377198 >>43377362

>>43377083
Aye. The Americans seem to think that because they get taught about it in schools, we do as well. I suppose with so little history they have to make a big deal of what they have.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 30 Oct 2015 18:33:48 No.43377147 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43377195 >>43377227

>>43377044
You may consider Napoleon as a "tyrant" for whatever reason, but his continental enemies were all absolutists and integrists. The UK prefered an Europe ruled by zealots than an Europe ruled by liberalism, but powerful and a threat for it's own monarchy and hegemony.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 30 Oct 2015 18:34:50 No.43377161 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43377072
I don't use american terminology, they make no sense, specially when discussing history.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 30 Oct 2015 18:36:37 No.43377195 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43377147
In actuality the Uk was just as despotic and backwards as the rest of Europe bar France. Parliaments and other councils in which the nobility could have their voice heard, with varying degrees of representation for the wealthier commons, were absolutely common in Europe since the Middle Ages. I don't know why the British pretend they are somehow special in that regard. Maybe it's part of their desire to constantly one-up France? The same desire that derailed this entire thread into a "look how much I hate Napoleon" fuckfest?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 30 Oct 2015 18:36:46 No.43377198 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43377121
The only ones that I know who make a big deal about it is Canada, mostly because they did most of fighting.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 30 Oct 2015 18:37:25 No.43377213 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43370871
Wanting power in and of itself isn't bad.

It's what you do with the power and your intentions for it that make it good or bad.

Hence why Hitler is rightfully despised for being an evil prick despite rescuing Germany from economic depression, while, while FDR is praised for doing the same thing despite increasing federal power immensely without building in a system to keep the federal growth from growing out of control.

One was a swell guy who used his power to help his country and protect it, the other forced his country into sepf-destructive war-facism just so he could kill jews

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 30 Oct 2015 18:37:29 No.43377214 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43377278

Because the media is controlled by the Jews.

>>43370902
Americans like him, because he sold them the Louisiana territory at a good price.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 30 Oct 2015 18:38:09 No.43377227 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43377147
Eh fair enough.
We still kicked his teeth in though

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 30 Oct 2015 18:39:37 No.43377263 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43371682
>the second greentext implies that you don't take majority viewpoint at face value
Fixed that for accuracy.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 30 Oct 2015 18:40:26 No.43377278 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43377391 >>43377499

>>43377214
When it comes to Napoleon, it depends when you talk about Bonaparte or the guy who changed his name to Napoleon.
America likes Bonaparte because he gave us more land.
We hate Napoleon III because he wanted to get involved in the American Civil War.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 30 Oct 2015 18:45:10 No.43377350 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43377384

>>43377072
liberal in the historical usage, dipshit

not modern politics, the original meaning.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 30 Oct 2015 18:45:51 No.43377362 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43377593

>>43377083
>>43377121
I guess nobody likes talking about a war that they lost.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 30 Oct 2015 18:46:18 No.43377372 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43371533
Caesar basically had his hand forced because of his debts. It was either bankruptcy or taking over the empire. He just happened to be popular because the patrician class were corrupt as fuck and swiped a bunch of land.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 30 Oct 2015 18:46:58 No.43377384 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43377350
>original meaning.
or rather, the actual meaning of the word

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 30 Oct 2015 18:47:20 No.43377391 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43377410 >>43377450

>>43377278
>implying Americans even know about Napoleon III
The average American actually thinks the civil war was about slavery.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 30 Oct 2015 18:48:08 No.43377410 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43377440 >>43377456

>>43377391
because it was, and it's only recent revisionist apologists who came up with the farcical idea that it wasn't

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 30 Oct 2015 18:49:42 No.43377440 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43377469

>>43377410
Saying it was is like saying the revolutionary war was about freedom. There's a grain of truth there, but it's overly simplifying and misconstruing the political climate to the degree of being outright deceitful.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 30 Oct 2015 18:50:09 No.43377450 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43377661

>>43377391
saying it wasnt about slavery is bullshit, it was about a lot of factors, but slavery was definitely the reason stated for succession.

its like saying world war 2 wasn't about Hitler invading Poland. sure it was a bout a lot of things, but he definitely invaded Poland.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 30 Oct 2015 18:50:23 No.43377456 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43377522 >>43377630

>>43377410
>Implying it wasn't about state rights first and foremost
Abraham Lincoln wasn't even anti-slavery per se when the Civil War started. The problem is that when the North wanted to enforce the abolition of slavery on the agricultural South, said states simply ceded and started their own America with slavery, hookers and blackjack.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 30 Oct 2015 18:50:48 No.43377469 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43377548

>>43377440
>overly simplifying and misconstruing the political climate to the degree of being outright deceitful.

The irony. This is what Southerners actually believe, international anons.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 30 Oct 2015 18:52:06 No.43377496 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43377608

>>43370950
>while the westerners still consider him God's scourge.
That's Tamerlane.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 30 Oct 2015 18:52:21 No.43377499 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43377564

>>43377278
Nobody says just "Napoleon" when talking about Napoleon III. Napoleon with nothing more means Napoleon I, even the french call the other guy "Small Napoleon".

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 30 Oct 2015 18:53:22 No.43377522 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43377456
Looks like someone never read the corner stone speech...

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 30 Oct 2015 18:54:31 No.43377548 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43377714

>>43377469
>international anons

I doubt anyone outside the USA who is educated enough believes your civil war was just about slavery. Just like your revolution was not just about freedom.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 30 Oct 2015 18:55:11 No.43377564 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43377499
>even the french call the other guy "Small Napoleon".
Victor Hugo mostly. While Napoleon III was nothing compared to his uncle, Victor Hugo's hatred of the guy means history judges him much too unfairly. He was the first true breath of liberalism in France after the Coalition once more forced the Bourbons on a people that did not want them.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 30 Oct 2015 18:56:05 No.43377593 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43377656

>>43377362
Hardly. We have many, many wars to remember, and while 1812 was no doubt significant, it wasn't ww1 or 2, or even 1066. There's literally not enough time to teach everything.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 30 Oct 2015 18:56:57 No.43377608 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43377496
Nobody who isn't well read knows about Tamerlane in the west. In fact a lot of people who is well read doesn't know him either.

The scourge of god in european collective mind is Attila.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 30 Oct 2015 18:58:25 No.43377630 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43377456
And why do you fucking think some states did not want to abide by Federal laws primarily, instead their own State laws? I'll give you two hints: a certain number of states didn't want a Federal abolishment of a certain practice, and two, look up a thing called "Bleeding Kansas."

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 30 Oct 2015 18:59:45 No.43377656 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43377735 >>43378068

>>43377593
>We have many, many wars to remember
And yet it's the British who always bring up burning the White House. Not even the White House that stands there right now, but its completely unimportant predecessor, in an act with zero strategic benefits.

This is literally on par with modern day Italians ridiculing modern day Frenchmen because somewhere in a distance past, Caesar took a dump in an area which roughly corresponds to the Champs de Mars.

If it's so unimportant, why don't you (which includes your foreign ambassadors) shut up about it?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 30 Oct 2015 19:00:05 No.43377661 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43377450
>but slavery was definitely the reason stated for succession
See, even that is different from saying the war was about slavery. The war was about secession. Slavery was one of the reasons for succession, of course, but not the only reason. Even of those five states which issued a formal declaration of secession, only four brought up slavery as one of the issues. And Oklahoma, which seceded without an official declaration, didn't even allow slavery in the first place.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 30 Oct 2015 19:01:15 No.43377672 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43370871
And Alexander the Great is still remembered as Satan Mk. II by some of the cultures he conquered.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 30 Oct 2015 19:03:38 No.43377714 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43377548
Slavery was one part of the civil war. Not it's focus , at first. It was maintaining a union after the south realized slavery was going to be abolished soon after the president was elected without their support. When Lincoln started to enlist blacks to fight, then it became about the abolition of slavery for paid work.
Even if the south won, slavery wouldn't have survived the end of the 19th century, because of how economically draining it was on the sysyem. Jim Crowe laws would probably still be around, though.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 30 Oct 2015 19:04:48 No.43377735 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43377754

>>43377656
Actually it's Canadians who bring it up.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 30 Oct 2015 19:06:07 No.43377754 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43377798 >>43377804 >>43377810

>>43377735
What's a "Canadians"? Is it edible?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 30 Oct 2015 19:08:57 No.43377798 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43377887

>>43377754
Yes, it's actually a sweet chilled food.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 30 Oct 2015 19:09:10 No.43377804 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43377887

>>43377754
Some of those shit USA states nobody can place on the map

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 30 Oct 2015 19:09:29 No.43377810 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43377887

>>43377754
It's a kind beast that smells of Molson's beer, Tim Horton's, and gives passers-by french fries covered in delicious beef gravy and cheese.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 30 Oct 2015 19:14:02 No.43377887 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43377798
>>43377804
>>43377810
So it's a monster shaped like Nebraska with a cold skin and a sweet smell of beer and donuts that gives peasant food to starving streeet urchins?

Someone stat this "Canadians"

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 30 Oct 2015 19:16:59 No.43377933 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43370871
>are seen as heroes in our culture.
The fuck you talkin about kid ?
Genghis Khan is my hero

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 30 Oct 2015 19:25:36 No.43378068 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43377656
I have literally never heard anyone in this country mention us burning down the White House. To be honest, the war of 1812 rarely comes up in conversation. There are far more interesting historical topics.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 30 Oct 2015 20:31:10 No.43379137 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43379164

>>43370950

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 30 Oct 2015 20:32:33 No.43379164 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43379137

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