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Planescape General and Q&A

Anonymous Sat 24 Oct 2015 23:55:52 No.43266688 View Reply Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43277485 >>43292009

Planescape General and Q&A

Discuss Planescape and the Great Wheel here, whether the original AD&D 2e version, the 3.X version, the 4e version (yes, it exists in 4e, down to the baernaloths, the yugoloths, the Heart of Darkness, Maeldur et Kavurik, Tenebrous, Pelion, and the Last Word all being canon as of Dragon #417), the 5e version, or your own original blend.

I run a group Planescape game twice a week, as well as a one-on-one Planescape game twice (rarely, thrice), for an average of six hours each session. I think myself qualified to field any Planescape questions (under a holistic blend of 2e and 3.X planar lore), so feel free to ask about lore, adventure ideas, and character ideas. I will cite sources when possible and note when something is my personal interpretation. I disagree with "afroakuma" on many counts, so expect my answers to be somewhat different from theirs.

>Basic setting summary: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planescape
>Comprehensive Planescape reference index: http://www.rilmani.org/psIndex.txt
>Planewalker.com planar encyclopedia: http://mimir.planewalker.com/encyclopedia/plane
>Canonfire.com planar encyclopedia: http://canonfire.com/wiki/index.php?title=Outer_Planes
>Rilmani.org planar encyclopedia (contains unmarked fanon, so beware): http://www.rilmani.org/timaresh/Outer_Planes
>List of all the multiverse's gods (contains all gods mentioned in D&D products, but also has plenty of speculation and fanon for mythological deities and for powers with few details on them): http://mimir.planewalker.com/forum/list-dead-gods#comment-58090

Old threads with previous questions and comprehensive answers:
https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/42954197/
https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/42966029/
https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/43168673/
>>43248756

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 01:43:12 No.43269034 Report Delete

Quoted By:

bump

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 06:24:05 No.43272392 Report Delete

Quoted By:

No Planescape love?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 06:28:37 No.43272429 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43273244 >>43277383

I have a question, planescape is the original D&D settings, right? So there is some other information about prator other than his shield?

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 08:14:29 No.43273244 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43272429

Planescape indeed comprises all of the settings of AD&D 2e. The setting of Planescape is, for the most part, its own standalone work that can operate without any of the other settings, and it is that standalone portion that I am most familiar with.

Unfortunately, my research shows me that the "Shield of Prator" is a purely 3.X-era-exclusive (it does not appear in the 2e Encyclopedia Magica), Greyhawk-lite-generic-setting artifact. It first appeared in the 3.5 Dungeon Master's Guide (possibly the 3.0 one as well), and has received zero mentions ever since.

One can only assume that it would exist in 3.X-era Planescape, although one would have to wonder what the "Three Hells" are from a Planescape context.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 12:05:08 No.43275719 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43276525 >>43276973

Since succubi are no longer demons in later editions, does that mean Malcanthet is no longer the Queen of the Succubi?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 12:12:25 No.43275807 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43276582 >>43277023

Does our Earth exist in Planescape?

Does Elminster still come here to have a beer with Ed Greenwood?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 12:15:24 No.43275846 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43276582 >>43277023

Are any of the 2E modules actually good?

I'd feel more comfortable running a pre-gen adventure before running something original in the setting.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 12:58:23 No.43276525 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43276582

>>43275719

A good question. This may take a long explanation.

First of all, I would like to refer you to Dragon #417, which is effectively "the Planescape issue" of 4e-era Dragon Magazine, referencing even the baernaloths and Tenebrous. It contains an article on the succubi of 4e:
www.sendspace.com/file/nxfa7i

Succubi in 4e's "World Axis" cosmology are devils, not demons. All first-generation devils are fallen angels (though bear in mind that as per the Monster Vault, angels are *not* god-created, but rather, spawned from the Astral itself; many are unaligned/neutral, so this was more of a neutral -> evil fall). Succubi in particular are fallen angels of love, who were originally unaligned/neutral.

The infamous Graz'zt was originally a devil. Page 130 of the 4e Manual of the Planes says:
>Graz’zt was once a devil and a trusted advisor to Asmodeus, who charged Graz’zt with invading the Abyss and seizing the evil seed that created it

Page 18 of Dragon #417 further expounds:
>In Demonomicon, the incubus—the male aspect of the succubus from folklore—made its 4th Edition debut as a demon. As the abyssal counterpoint to the infernal succubus, the incubus was cast as a male demon of violent, insatiable lust rather than a creature that relied on seduction. So how could an incubus be both the male aspect of a succubus devil and a demon in the Abyss?

>Demonomicon explains that when the devil Graz’zt attacked the Abyss during the Blood War, he brought his harem of succubi. After Graz’zt had occupied three layers of the Abyss and founded the triple realm of Azzagrat, he and his followers were gradually corrupted by the Abyss and transformed at least partially into demons. This corruption had a singular effect on his succubi—it triggered their male aspect, and they learned to change their shapes into forms more appropriate for their new demonic nature: those of savage, chaotic, insatiable beasts.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 13:01:05 No.43276582 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43276525

>Since these demons maintain the male form at all times, the term “incubus” came to be associated with this abyssal monster.

>Regardless of the differences between demons and devils, a succubus that takes a male form is still commonly referred to as an incubus as long as it is assuming the male gender.

To be clear, then: succubi (Monster Vault p52) are female and are devils, while incubi (Demonomicon p118) are male and are demons. First-generation incubi were originally succubi, while first-generation succubi were originally angels of love. Graz'zt the demon lord was likewise originally an archdevil.

Now, my research tells me that either page 160 or the back cover of 4e's Demonomicon (all of the scans available are both, alas) lists down Malcanthet as a demon lord and the ruler of the Abyssal layer known as Shendilavri, just as she was in 3.5. This means that Malcanthet is still around. No further details are given to her.

The safest assumption one can make on Malcanthet in 4e is that just like Graz'zt, she was formerly a succubus who was then further corrupted into a devil. That would make her a queen of the *incubi* rather than the succubi. Interpret that how you will.

>>43275807

I have covered this in a previous thread: https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/43168673/#43203997

Two Earths I fail to list down there are the magical Earth of the Historical Reference series, as well as the Earth where Elminster meets Ed Greenwood. In fact, page 52 of the "Realmspace" Spelljammer supplement gives Elminster portals to *two* separate Earths, one set in 1894 and one where he talks to Mr. Greenwood.

>>43275846

The Great Modron March and Dead Gods are both highly acclaimed modules, although I would also recommend "Squaring the Circle" from Hellbound: The Blood War if you wish to run an epic adventure where the PCs get to cripple all of the fiends of the multiverse in one fell swoop.

Unfortunately, I must retire for tonight.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 13:28:25 No.43276973 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43277023 >>43277449

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 13:31:05 No.43277023 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43277294 >>43277449 >>43280215

>>43276973

>Since these demons maintain the male form at all times, the term “incubus” came to be associated with this abyssal monster.

>Regardless of the differences between demons and devils, a succubus that takes a male form is still commonly referred to as an incubus as long as it is assuming the male gender.

To be clear, then: succubi (Monster Vault p52) are female and are devils, while incubi (Demonomicon p118) are male and are demons. First-generation incubi were originally succubi, while first-generation succubi were originally angels of love. Graz'zt the demon lord was likewise originally an archdevil.

Now, page 80 of 4e's Demonomicon lists down Malcanthet as a demon lord and the ruler of Abyssal layer #570, Shendilavri, just as she was in 3.5. This means that Malcanthet is still around. No further details are given to her.

The safest assumption one can make on Malcanthet in 4e is that just like Graz'zt, she was formerly a succubus who was then further corrupted into a devil. That would make her a queen of the *incubi* rather than the succubi. Interpret that how you will.

>>43275807

I have covered this in a previous thread: https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/43168673/#43203997

Two Earths I fail to list down there are the magical Earth of the Historical Reference series, as well as the Earth where Elminster meets Ed Greenwood. In fact, page 52 of the "Realmspace" Spelljammer supplement gives Elminster portals to *two* separate Earths, one set in 1894 and one where he talks to Mr. Greenwood.

>>43275846

The Great Modron March and Dead Gods are both highly acclaimed modules, although I would also recommend "Squaring the Circle" from Hellbound: The Blood War if you wish to run an epic adventure where the PCs get to cripple all of the fiends of the multiverse in one fell swoop.

Unfortunately, I must retire for tonight.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 13:45:16 No.43277294 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43277349

>>43277023

The one thing I absolutely love about that article in #417 is that they refer to the fact that the insistent terminology of succubae=devil incubi=demon isn't actually followed about common use.

King Crabs everywhere!

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 13:48:24 No.43277349 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43280166

>>43277294
Why king crabs?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 13:50:23 No.43277383 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43272429
No, the original is Greyhawk, based off of Gygax's first campaign; but Greyhawk, like all settings, exists within Planescape.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 13:53:30 No.43277449 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43276973
>>43277023

While I'm rather opposed to the whole "Succubi are devils because seduction isn't chaotic" rationale, I do kind of like the whole incubus and succubus being on separate ends of the spectrum, even if it doesn't make a whole ton of sense.

I also don't really understand how Angels of Love would be neutral, since Love is one of the most Good concepts, but I guess it's just one of those "Sex=Love" ideas that follows along with "Men=Rape" and "Chaos=Stupid."

Thanks for that digging.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 13:55:42 No.43277485 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43282448 >>43290267 >>43303577

>>43266688
My biggest peeve about Planescape is that there's a lot of focus on the Outer Planes and so on, but the actual amount of weird stuff is somewhat limited. You have infinite planes, but the player races in the first boxed set are regular fantasy classes, humans with funny eyes, and bariaur. My idea of planescape is more along the lines of Torment, where every NPC you find has some fantastic backstory. I know that there are balance concerns, but I'd really like to see a game like Planescape not constrained by the D&D rules.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 16:14:03 No.43280166 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43277349

There are a lot of crab species with the common name (King Crab).

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 16:16:44 No.43280215 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43280338 >>43290267

>>43277023

Looking at the 417 article, Malcanthet is mentioned as a leader of the angels of love that went devil.

Given that devils into demons is not unheard of, it doesn't take much to infer what happened.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 16:22:32 No.43280338 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43284791 >>43290267

>>43280215

Reading just a bit more, it's actually explicitly stated that she signed up to be in the abyss and then became a demon, because that's what happens in the abyss.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 18:08:47 No.43282448 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43277485
>I'd really like to see a game like Planescape not constrained by the D&D rules.

I'm actually a little confused by what you mean by that. As far as 3rd edition goes, you could play all sorts of bizarre monstrous races. In fact, there's really no limits to what you could play as long as the DM had a grasp of what he was doing.

>I know that there are balance concerns,
These are largely why Planescape has always been a rather "upper levels" campaign setting, since it's easy for novice DMs to just finfangle the entire thing. With so many variables in play, its hard for any system to handle all of them right out of the box.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 19:55:50 No.43284791 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43280338
Why isn't she a dude though?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 21:46:39 No.43287481 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43290267

How does eberron work with planescepe. It seems like it has a different set of outer planes.

I guess this makes sense because in 3e different cosmologies were linked by the deep plane of shadow.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 21:59:12 No.43287771 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43290267

What are the most basic aspects of Planescape that a DM should know before trying to DM a campaign in the setting?

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 23:29:35 No.43290267 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43290412

>>43277485

That is why I recommend running Planescape in a system that does not use races, or at least allows players to create their own races in a fair and balanced manner.

I use Strike! RPG for all of my Planescape needs nowadays. Previous PC races I have run for included a minor goddess, a succubus, a human-turned-divine-fox, an arcanaloth-leonal hybrid, an oni, a cervidal, an ancient Baatorian, an avatar of Malcanthet, an al-mi'raj, an arcanaloth, and a werewolf. Not the most exotic lot, I know, but I try to make up for it in the NPCs; I have had even truly minor NPCs be strange, including kython maids and beholder receptionists, but non-Touhoufied.

>>43280215
>>43280338

I should have read that article more in-depth. Thank you for catching that.

>>43287481

Eberron was created under the 3.X paradigm of each setting comprising its own "Material Plane" and thus its own cosmology.

For Eberron in particular, you can say that:
A. It has a VERY nonstandard Border Ethereal with many distinct regions that resemble discrete planes.
B. It is connected to a series of demiplanes.
C. It is connected to a collection of strange regions of various planes (e.g. Shavarath is an area in Acheron, Risia can be found in the Paraelemental Plane of Ice, Dolurrh is part of either the Demiplane of Shadow or the Gray Waste).
D. It is truly its own multiverse that must be reached via the Shadow.

>>43287771

I could go on about "Rule of Three" and various aspects of planar geography, but assuming you are not running a premade adventure, perhaps the most important thing to do as a GM is to select a few planar locations to focus on initially. Be honest with your players that you would like to focus on those locations first; the planes make up an incredibly expansive setting, and you, the GM, will be overwhelmed if you simply dump them into the entire multiverse all at once. Focusing on a few key locations is best for that.

Sigil is a good place to focus the campaign on initially.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 23:35:08 No.43290412 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43290909

>>43290267
Yea, I was thinking Sigil would be a good place to have the players' "home base" be.

I was also thinking of having a more directed planar selection by having them work for some skeletal businessman who operates out of one of the many buildings in Sigil, having the players go to odd portals located within the city to go to other planes and retrieve individuals or items for business.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 23:54:33 No.43290909 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43290412

Sigil has many a businessperson within it, and in fact, merchants are quite possibly the wealthiest people within it (the "Golden Lords" of Sigil, quite possibly including the likes of Zadara and Todd Stewart's waifu, Shemeshka).

You should pick three planar locations (not entire planes, but smaller locations within them) for their patron to send them towards. Planescape grows progressively more alien the further one moves away from the Outlands; the Outlands are a relatively normal and Prime-like place, the aligned Outer Planes can get weird but not too weird, and before you know it, you are in the Deep Ethereal where dharculuses (incorporeal congeries of tentacles and hydra-like heads) nibble upon transtemporal chronolilies amidst a background of solar systems in the forging process.

Pick three of whatever planar species you are already most familiar with, be they baatezu (devils), tanar'ri (demons), yugoloths, archons, guardinals, eladrin, or modrons. Find their respective home planes, download the appropriate Planescape book (Planes of Law/Chaos/Conflict), skim through the entries on those planes, and choose a single location from each.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 26 Oct 2015 00:38:40 No.43292009 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43294355 >>43299987

>>43266688
Got some cool shit today, pretty fuckin excited. The planescape box was $15. Did I do good?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Oct 2015 01:53:21 No.43293386 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43294355

If you run Planescape in anything other than FATE, you're wrong.

D&D a shit.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 26 Oct 2015 06:21:01 No.43294355 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43292009

You did very well.

>>43293386

I run my Planescape in Strike! RPG, which is essentially a D&D 4e/Burning Wheel/Fate hybrid.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Oct 2015 07:45:12 No.43294916 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43295114

can you explain the "center of all" in planescape?

The other two rules, rule of 3 and the unity of rings make a lot of intuitive sense as to how to apply them in a game, but I am a bit confused as to how I would work in center of all.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 26 Oct 2015 08:14:15 No.43295114 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43295121 >>43301125 >>43311463

>>43294916

The concept of "Center of All" is that there is no center of the multiverse; however, from any given person's perspective, they are their own center of the multiverse.

This is arguably more applicable to the infinitely wide Astral, Ethereal, Inner, and Outer Planes than finite demiplanes or crystal spheres. In an infinitely expansive plane, there is no true center.

The short version of "Center of All" can be found in page 8 of the Planewalker's Handbook:
>The Center of the Multiverse: Priems think their little worlds sit at the center of it all, but it ain't true. Fact is, NOTHING sits at the center of the multiverse - how can there be a "center" of an infinite expanse? So, really, no place is more important than anywhere else. By the same token, wherever a body stands is the center of the multiverse - at least from his perspective.

The long version can be found in page 4 of A Player's Guide to the Planes, from the original Planescape Campaign Setting boxed set:
>THE CENTER OF THE MULTIVERSE
>It’s usually upsetting to Prime Material bashers when they hear that their little world isn’t the center of the universe, which is why they’re known to planars as the Clueless. Members of a faction called the Signers might argue otherwise, but smart folks say there's no particular center to the planar multiverse. Rather, it all depends on where you stand. Folks in Sigil see the City of Doors as the center of the multiverse, folks on the Prime Material Plane say their own worlds are the center of the universe, and the efreet brag that the City of Brass is the center of all. The thing is, maybe they’re all right and maybe they’re all wrong.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 26 Oct 2015 08:15:52 No.43295121 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43301125 >>43311463

>>43295114

>Maybe they’re all right because - the multiverse being infinite by most standards - no matter where you stand, that’s the center of all things. The Signers have turned that idea into a whole philosophy: “I’m always at the center of the multiverse; therefore, I must be the center of all universes,” they say. ’Course, the Signer’s aren’t quite right, because by that logic everyone stands at the center of the multiverse. (The Signers resolve this little paradox by ignoring it.)

>In blunt words, the fact is there ain’t any place in the whole multiverse that’s more important than any other. For instance, Mystara on the Prime Material Plane is not the most powerful, influential, and important point in the multiverse; it’s not the sole reason all other planes and powers exist. Hey, the uncounted layers of the Abyss stink of Evil itself, but exactly zero of the other Outer Planes kowtow to them, regardless of that the fiends there claim!

>Some places - like Sigil - are more useful than others, though. Just because it’s not the center of the universe, don’t think it ain’t important, berk.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Oct 2015 11:58:31 No.43296760 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43297115 >>43299234

Is there some Planescape equivalent without Great Wheel, but with important bits still attached?

Dungeons & Discourse stuff.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 26 Oct 2015 12:35:28 No.43297115 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43297469

>>43296760

I am unsure of what you seek out of this; the Great Wheel *is* Planescape's entire setting.

Planescape without the Great Wheel would be tantamount to Eberron without the planet of Eberron, or Dark Sun sans Athas.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Oct 2015 13:05:25 No.43297469 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43297787 >>43299849

>>43297115
Planescape is about "belief shapes reality". Great Wheel is simply an extension of this idea.

I don't mean literally "Planescape without Great Wheel", but more of a "Planescape with different alignments". I.e. different Great Wheel (or Great Triangle/Sphere/Hypercube/..) that has (for example) Ethical Deterministic alignment or True Utilitarian, instead of Lawful Good or True Neutral.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 26 Oct 2015 13:29:51 No.43297787 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43298008

>>43297469

You probably want to start by using a system without alignment or with minimized alignment importance (e.g. any non-D&D system, or if you absolutely must use D&D, use either 4e or 5e).

Take the Great Ring of the Outer Planes and break it up such that it is simply sixteen "aligned" Outer Planes orbiting the central plane of the Outlands. Assign an appropriate set of themes to each "aligned" Outer Plane and its exemplars.

For instance, you could designate Mount Celestia's primary theme as "self-improvement and forging one's principles through rigorous trials and tribulations," and its archons would uphold that theme. Likewise, Gehenna's theme could be "pure mercenary gain and treading on others to get ahead in life," and its perilous slopes and its yugoloths could exemplify that.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Oct 2015 13:49:06 No.43298008 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43307379

>>43297787
>You probably want to start by using a system without alignment or with minimized alignment importance
I wanted to know if there is already such a setting.

> Take the Great Ring of the Outer Planes and break it up such that it is simply sixteen "aligned" Outer Planes
Could work. But then why should I limit myself with Outer Planes, if I have to design each and every philosophy from the ground up and then remake Plane to fit the philosophy appropriately?

Consider steampunkish Determinists (perfected Mechanics) waging eternal war on Quantum Xaositecs. The narrative changes completely. Determinists desire the Perfection via Perfect Knowledge, while Xaositecs worship Chaos because it ensures their Free Will.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Oct 2015 15:19:58 No.43299234 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43311107

>>43296760
There are no campaign settings about philosopher-adventurers exploring the planes. Planescape is the only one.

If you want to replace the Great Wheel and wing everything else, the best I know of is Mongoose Publishing's Classic Play: The Book of the Planes. While loosely analogous to the Great Wheel, it reduces the number of outer planes to 9 and makes only two them into designated afterlives. You can read the full text of the book on the purple duck grand ogl wiki.

BotP makes an attempt to explain how to run planar adventures, but this is severely limited by page count and vast scope. The book is simply too short to give each plane enough attention. Mongoose did publish some other books that explored the geography and inhabitants of the Lower Planes.

DM Kroft !ScSfaqO.RY

DM Kroft !ScSfaqO.RY Mon 26 Oct 2015 16:04:48 No.43299849 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43307379 >>43311278

>>43297469

>Planescape is about "belief shapes reality". Great Wheel is simply an extension of this idea.

"Belief shapes Reality" is only a constant in the Outer Planes; the Inner Planes, the Prime Material and the Ethereal are not subject to that rule. "Philosophers with Clubs" was the original pitch used by Cook to describe the setting. Even though Planescape eventually grew bigger than that, it seems to be the most descriptive concept for the whole thing.

Though you can make something similar to Planescape in a conceptual and aesthetical level, I've always considered the Great Wheel itself one of the setting's greatest selling points.

DM Kroft !ScSfaqO.RY

DM Kroft !ScSfaqO.RY Mon 26 Oct 2015 16:12:50 No.43299987 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43305212

>>43292009

$15 for the Boxed Set is a pretty good price indeed, and I'm always glad to see another Spelljammer DM; we're a dying breed. The box looks a bit worn on the outside; did all the content come inside?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Oct 2015 17:27:19 No.43301125 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43307379

>>43295121
>>43295114

Thanks for the explanation!
so, I get this theme conceptually. I guess what I am asking is if you know of a good way or a premade adventuer that has a good way to use this theme in an adventure.

I can do rule of 3 in an adventure by doing some cool things in sents of 3s, and I can drill in "unity of rings" by having adventurers ending up where they started on an adventure. I am just not sure how to actually incorporate "center of all' into a game.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Oct 2015 18:58:01 No.43302493 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43302666 >>43304935 >>43308436

what is the closest thing to cthulhu in planescape. I love the campaign setting "the dark heart of space" from d20 future, where the enemy is basically this evil force from space to slowly is corrupting all sentient beings.

I know tales from the infinite staircase had something like that, except it was a force of boredom instead.

Anyway, some sort of evil alien spreading force

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Oct 2015 19:08:06 No.43302666 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43303260 >>43308436

>>43302493
The Far Realm is pretty much this. It's heavily H.P. Lovecraft inspired, playing upon elements like insanity, forbidden knowledge, and more. Throughout all of the D&D settings that exist, the Far Realm is the most persistent one, so finding information on it is rather easy.

I myself like the 3.5 Manual of the Planes rendition of it, as it gives a bit more detail on it rather than alluding to its existence and then nothing more.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Oct 2015 19:48:43 No.43303260 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43303463 >>43304894 >>43308436

>>43302666
are there any planescape premades that deal with the far realm?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Oct 2015 20:01:37 No.43303463 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43304894 >>43308436

>>43303260
There's no premade Planescape adventures that I know of that deal with the Far Realm itself, as it's extremely difficult to get to and from the Far Realm. No natural portals exist to it, not even within Sigil, and those who do manage to open portals to it inevitably go mad.

If there are any adventures that involve the Far Realm, it would likely involve mad cultists trying to open portals to the realm moreso than actually going to the realm itself, as being in the Far Realm is just bad news bears. What with not being meant for the minds of mortals.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Oct 2015 20:07:17 No.43303577 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43277485 >>43277485
I would say that a huge part of planescape is that it is D and D turned up to 11. Nothing would make sense with out D and D.

I also believe that a campaign focused on sigil is a huge waste of the setting. Great modron march and well of worlds get it right by being scattered throughout the planes.

DM Kroft !ScSfaqO.RY

DM Kroft !ScSfaqO.RY Mon 26 Oct 2015 21:18:38 No.43304894 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43303260
>>43303463

Sadly, Planescape never incorporated the Far Realms, so there was never a PS module for it.

Even though they were around at the same time (first appearing in the Firestorm Peak module for AD&D), they were not considered part of the cosmology at the time; it was only incorporated into the standard multiverse with 3's Manual of the Planes.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Oct 2015 21:21:08 No.43304935 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43302493
Cthulhu has been in d&d since the early 80s

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Oct 2015 21:37:50 No.43305212 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43305367 >>43308466

>>43299987
almost, it ended up not having one of maps and the DM Screen.
It's a shame so many people seem unwilling to play Spelljammer.

DM Kroft !ScSfaqO.RY

DM Kroft !ScSfaqO.RY Mon 26 Oct 2015 21:47:18 No.43305367 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43306372 >>43308466

>>43305212

>almost, it ended up not having one of maps and the DM Screen.

A very good deal for the price, I'd say!

>It's a shame so many people seem unwilling to play Spelljammer.

Aye, a shame indeed. There's a lot of heart in that setting. Most people I know give it a pass because they feel it's too ridiculous, but while admittedly it is an odd setting in a Flash Gordon sort of way, properly played it can be one of the most original swashbuckling settings out there. Our current Planescape campaign is about two-four sessions -depending PC shenanigans- from delving right into spelljamming stuff.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Oct 2015 22:48:33 No.43306372 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43305367
Sounds like a fun campaign.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 26 Oct 2015 23:59:38 No.43307379 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43311278 >>43311488

>>43298008

>Consider steampunkish Determinists (perfected Mechanics) waging eternal war on Quantum Xaositecs. The narrative changes completely. Determinists desire the Perfection via Perfect Knowledge, while Xaositecs worship Chaos because it ensures their Free Will.
Planescape already has plenty of law and chaos in the form of modrons vs. slaadi, baatezu vs. tanar'ri, Fraternity of Order/Harmonium/Mercykillers vs. Revolutionary League/Xaositects, and so on.

You could easily change around the factions and the sects to accommodate different philosophies than the ones already presented.

>>43299849

Belief shapes reality on the Outer Planes, but canny etherwalkers can force reality to conform to their thoughts in the Deep Ethereal and the Astral (possibly even forging their own realities). Furthermore, belief bolsters *all* creatures *everywhere* under the Planewalker's Handbooks rules for belief points, which are essentially FATE's fate points, down to gaining them whenever your beliefs get you in trouble.

>>43301125

"Center of All"/"Center of the Multiverse" is not exactly essential to work into adventures (and neither are the other two cosmic principles; it is not that important to follow the Rule of Three and the Unity of Rings).

One relevant way to bring it up would be to have NPCs proclaim some place like Sigil to be the "center of the multiverse," show why that likely is not the case from a planar geography standpoint (e.g. Sigil is in the Outer Planes, and that is probably not the "center"), and then point out just how important the place is despite the fact that it is not really the center of all.

Another way to use "Center of All" is to demonstrate just how bizarre and alien traveling through any individual Outer Plane is, what with the infinitely expansive geography and the fact that travel is based more on thoughts and concepts than any physical locomotion. I am having a hard time conveying that to my own players though; travel in the Outer is weird.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 01:33:57 No.43308436 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43308466

>>43302493
>>43302666
>>43303260
>>43303463

The most you will ever find on the Far Realm can be found in pages 212-213 the 3.0 Manual of the Planes and in page 8 of Lords of Madness. The latter has the better writeup in my opinion:

>While aberrations do roam the depths of the Nine Hells and the fetid layers of the Abyss, they are especially common in one plane—the Far Realm. The Far Realm represents the very edge of creation, the place that exists at the borders of conception. What lies beyond it is physically inconceivable and cannot be brought into existence. It is possible that the Far Realm exists as both a spatial and temporal frontier as well as a planar one, and that a traveler who moves through space or time to the ends of the universe could reach the Far Realm in much the same way that a planar traveler could. If explorers have attempted such a journey, they have not returned to tell the tale.

>Wherever the Far Realm truly lies, it is a place where all natural law runs amok. Aberrations are spawned in its infinite madness, and some of these fi nd their way—through space, through time, or most commonly through planar travel—to the mundane realms of humanoids. Cloakers, the strange and sinister beings that haunt the black underground depths, originated in the Far Realm and came to the normal world long ago. Likewise, the terrible psurlons, psionic monsters of great strength, also arose in the Far Realm.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 01:36:37 No.43308466 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43308436

My personal interpretation of the Far Realm is that it is simply one or more multiverses whose inhabitants and physical laws are incompatible with the Great Wheel.

Open up an .mp3 file with Notepad, and you will receive mind-boggling garbage. Force an audio player to open up a plain text file, and who knows what will happen?

The same goes for the Far Realm and the Great Wheel. The people in the Far Realm surely have their own lives and lands that make perfect sense to them, but when one of them crosses over to the Great Wheel, their "translation" to the new multiverse is woefully incompatible, resulting in an eldritch mess.

It is quite likely that such first-generation immigrants from the Far Realm were profoundly scared and confused (in their own way), having been dropped into a completely foreign reality under different physical paradigms. Over time, they adapted and naturalized, hence the aberrations we see today.

Conversely, to those of the Far Realm, the people of the Great Wheel are the "Far Realm," the incomprehensible and eldritch beings of a totally different reality incompatible with their own.

Again, this is all just my personal interpretation.

>>43305212
>>43305367

My own Planescape games have Spelljammer material on the side (and indeed, planar-Spelljammer-like vehicles were introduced in the 3.5 Planar Handbook). The Harmonium has its own crystal sphere empire (one of the largest, in fact), the Elven Imperial Navy makes trips to Arborea, Sigil has two spelljamming ports, one PC owns a spelljammer, and so on.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 01:36:39 No.43308468 Report Delete

Quoted By:

a short side-story by todd stewart about the far realm within planescape, linking it to some planescape lore events: http://mimir.planewalker.com/041219/for-there-a-hole-sky
(sorry i don't want to sound like a shill, but i've recently re-read most of his storyhour so things are fresh on my mind)

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 07:57:44 No.43311107 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43299234
>Mongoose Publishing's Classic Play: The Book of the Planes
Thanks.

Also bump.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 08:20:30 No.43311278 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43311630

>>43299849
>I've always considered the Great Wheel itself one of the setting's greatest selling points.
Great Wheel is quite good, but I'm curious about alternatives.

>>43307379
>Planescape already has plenty of law and chaos
Determinists/Quantum Xaositecs were an example of consequences of modifying the Outer Planes. Even relying on similar concept results in markedly different ultra-tech Chaos and arcano-steampunk Law. It's more of a Perfection vs Progress thing now.

Modrons at this point could get replaced with the Clockwork Vampires that leech off randomness and inject their victims with the Clockwork virus which slowly turns them into brass automatons, while the Mechanus itself becomes some sort of giant Babbage engine, designed to calculate 42.

> You could easily change around the factions and the sects to accommodate different philosophies than the ones already presented.
And add a third or fourth axis. Thats' not the problem. The problem here is the amount of work to be done. That's why I was curious if someone else tried to do it before.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 08:42:25 No.43311463 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43311630

>>43295114
>>43295121
But can't you determine the "distance" between any two planes via forging a magic item on plane a and taking it to plane B?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 08:43:57 No.43311488 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43311630

>>43307379
On the subject of The Rule of Three, doesn't that only apply to the upper planes? I recall the lower planes boxed set saying things there came in twos.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 08:58:53 No.43311630 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43311662 >>43311897

>>43311278

I am not very familiar with any sort of setting along such lines, unfortunately.

>>43311463

I am speaking of the distances within a single plane.

>>43311488

To my knowledge, the rule of three allegedly applies to the Outer Planes in general (I personally do not think it does, especially with the seventeen Outer Planes), whereas pages 10-11 of the Inner Planes book claim such elemental and energy planes to be dominated by the "rule of opposites and fours."

I have never previously heard of any "rule of twos" for the Lower Planes. Would you happen to recall where you had read of that?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 09:02:41 No.43311662 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43311630
>I have never previously heard of any "rule of twos" for the Lower Planes. Would you happen to recall where you had read of that?
I presume I was misremembering the rule of fours. (Probably got it mixed up because only two energy planes, pos and neg.)

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 09:26:25 No.43311897 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43311630
>I am speaking of the distances within a single plane.
Sorry, I misunderstood because some of the text you quoted came from an explanation of why the multiverse doesn't have a center. (Even though tests with a magic item can prove that the center of everything is the Prime, and the center of the Upper Planes is the Outlands.)

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