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Anonymous Mon 26 Oct 2015 00:00:04 No.43291062 View Reply Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43291128 >>43291207 >>43291311 >>43291429 >>43291479 >>43291558 >>43291871 >>43293271 >>43293407 >>43294504 >>43294577 >>43296708 >>43297265

Alright /tg I'm gonna ask you. How do you feel about DMPCs?
I thought I did it okay once when a group of mine didn't wanna make a healer, so I pitched a guy in there who was just a non-confrontational coward who would do nothing but heal the group and serve as bitch boy. Unfortunately game didn't go on for very long, don't know how it would've played out

Later on joined a Rogue Trader group where I saw the gm implant in a character, and it was the most mary-sue bullshit I've ever seen. Love the guy that ran the game, nice dude, but now whenever I play anything with him I try my best to actively keep him from assuming ANY form of authority.

So fa/tg/uys, discuss, share stories, or whatever
Cause I just feel that absolute power corrupts absolutely with this shit.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Oct 2015 00:02:32 No.43291128 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43291062
The GMPC has to be impartial, Weave them into the story, but there can be absolutely no bullshit like "I don't think that's a good idea." or "We should go this way." Because the players can only assume there's some extremely obvious railroading.

It's a very hard thing to do correctly, and frankly isn't worth the trouble in my opinion.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Oct 2015 00:05:30 No.43291207 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43291316

>>43291062
I had a GMPC who was the party leader's personal assistantt/coachman. It wound up working really well, as he could offer advice but had to bend to any request made from him. Him doing favors for the players (getting them drinks, doing shopping, opportunistic crossbow attacks) made him endearing.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Oct 2015 00:09:43 No.43291311 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43291062
Same as everything man, depends on the GM. It can spoil it for everyone if it's a self insert edgelord or it can end up being one of the best characters you've ever seen depending on how great your GM is.

As long as the GM can refrain from being a metagaming shitbag and legitimately distance himself from his GMing for the turn (granted, easier said than done) then there is nothing at all wrong with a GMPC. Just don't be a leader and take away RP opportunities from the group or use them to railroad and you're golden. Hell sometimes I've done it just because I've really liked some of the PCs character backstories and wanted to engage with them more personally than I could from an NPC's perspective. Granted I usually have them die when situationally appropriate to avoid them getting out of control and being a crutch for the PCs. But if someone misses a session for whatever reason and it turns out the the party REALLY needed that guy then I'll fill the role rather than tone down the difficulty and potentially ruin the fun for people who liked the previous level of challenge.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Oct 2015 00:10:02 No.43291316 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43291423

>>43291207
Did he engage in combat or other activity with the players?

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Oct 2015 00:11:41 No.43291357 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43291456

That's not a DMPC. Hirelings, henchmen, cohorts, helpers of all stripes are characters run by the DM, who is not a Player, so they are NPCs.

DMPC is what happens when the DM is playing the game with himself while everyone else is forced to watch. It's a violation of the DM<->Player division, as implied by the term itself: "DM Player Character"

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Oct 2015 00:14:59 No.43291423 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43291456

>>43291316
Nope. He drove the getaway vehicle (a tricked out stagecoach) and hid. He got braver over time, and at one point managed to fight off an ambush with a crossbow when the party was away, though that was meant to be character development.

Just remember that anything cool the GMPC does is something the players didn't get to do.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Oct 2015 00:15:28 No.43291429 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43294008

>>43291062
Play a character, just like any other NPC and you're golden. Avoid stealing the spotlight. Change out your character, kill them off every once in a while. It can be helpful, at times. Like when the immersion grinds to a halt because of a puzzle, or if they are about to make a huge mistake.

Also, if you make it an escort you can play a non-combat class like a cleric, or a non-combat wizard. I'd strictly avoid playing a fighter or paladin.

Also. Stay out of important battles.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Oct 2015 00:16:12 No.43291456 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43291357
Anon who did >>43291423 here. I did make that mistake where I had an NPC (who turned out to be the big bad) give the finishing blow to another villain which I know the players were looking forward to. I'm going to avoid that in the future.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Oct 2015 00:16:56 No.43291474 Report Delete

Quoted By:

I feel it works best for one-shots where the players have already agreed to being a bit on rails. In a long running campaign though I'm apprehensive of using a DMPC...

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Oct 2015 00:17:03 No.43291479 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43291062
Basic rule of thumb is don't, but if you must either because not enough players or whatever, make sure you do not, repeat DO NOT! take away from the player characters.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Oct 2015 00:20:14 No.43291558 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43291062
I'm currently a third-time GM (only played as a character once). Probably bound to be a foreverGM, I've been playing around with the idea of playing a supporting character, for roleplay xp more than anything.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Oct 2015 00:23:49 No.43291656 Report Delete

Quoted By:

Had one for my first gm.
NEVER
AGAIN.

If a Gm wants to have a funny, interesting character: Recurring NPC, Party friend

If the GM wants a badass: Villian

My first gm took the DMPC places I don't wanto to see again

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Oct 2015 00:28:28 No.43291777 Report Delete

Quoted By:

I've only done it "twice", but upon reflection they were more NPC's rather than DMPCs.

The first time was a one-off gunman-for-hire that I quickly slotted into the game because the characters needed an extra gun for the coming adventure. Essentially he was an extra attack per turn, which turned out I under estimated the party so he turned towards into an NPC that popped up later.
So, in the end, not an actual DMPC.

The second time, in the same game, was a Doctor who spawned his own questline that I introduced when he was introduced - a band of Mercenaries had kidnapped his daughter. He also filled the role of Healer, since nobody made a character with skill in medicine. The players grew to like the guy, even so much that when the questline finished his daughter was raped and murdered and they finally caught up with the mercenaries and exacted swift justiceand he announced he was leaving, going out into the wasteland to journey, they were genuinely sad to see him go.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Oct 2015 00:32:46 No.43291871 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43291062
The best DMPCs are the ones that are glorified followers that the DM plays and makes decisions for, but other than that they are there to follow the group, maybe offer comic relief or a snippet of sage advise (only when asked), and just support the PCs proper. You can make them a plot point, but never make them the MacGuffin for anything but maybe a side quest or short arc at most. If the players like them (like mine tend to) then you can make them have a bit more personality, but they should always remain a glorified NPC follower.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Oct 2015 00:46:31 No.43292139 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43292893

He will die.

No, its not DM fiat, its the fact that I have made 8 of the fuckers and they have soaked more crits and failed saves then the rest of the party combined. Have you ever seen so many natural 1's in a row that you quietly stand up and throw the dice in the trash?

We tried starting them off 5 levels higher then the rest of the party, have him sit in the back and be a healer. He was a higher level then the BBEG, so how could he possibly die?

Highest roll was a 7. The Fireballs landing on the party were maximized. Yes the save was low but with his rolling record no one was surprised when they had to bust out the potions.

So, we don't mind DM PC's were I'm from. We just wish they could be trusted to drink a health potion and not choke on the bottle.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Oct 2015 01:28:41 No.43292893 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43292139
We've had a DMPC burn to death under an upside down couch entirely through his own botched rolls.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Oct 2015 01:48:02 No.43293271 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43293365 >>43294617

>>43291062
>How do you feel about DMPCs?

Terrible, terrible always.
99% of the time it turns into wanking off to how cool the dmpc is or railroad deluxe where the DMPC is always the one who goes "Hey guys, I have an idea..."

Literally the only people with good experiences of DMPCs are the shitty DMs who use them.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Oct 2015 01:52:43 No.43293365 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43293436

>>43293271
That's because good DMPC's don't standout. If they do, it's only rare occurences, and never effects the story.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Oct 2015 01:54:34 No.43293407 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43291062
Not every GM-controlled character that travels with the group is a DMPC. To be DMPC they need to try and have an actual hand in guiding the party, be on equal level with other PCs. (Problems really start when they are on HIGHER standing than the other PCs in terms of driving the plot and direction). The scale is three levels: NPC - non-problematic DMPC - problematic DMPC. The middle level is reeally thin and rare. Most of the time what looks like an ok DMPC is just an NPC.

Healbot that stands in the corner and dishes heals is not a DMPC. You could have replaced him with a crate of Cure Light Wounds wands.

You number two example is straight up in the bad DMPC bin, obviously.

I have seen the non-bad DMPC once, the guy wasn't in charge, he didn't own the ship the group was travelling on, he wasn't more overpowered than anybody, and his character's opinion and input was honestly weighted by the party.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Oct 2015 01:55:20 No.43293417 Report Delete

Quoted By:

I'm glad my group has taken to the "GMPC" I made and his qualities. Threw that in quotes because I've heard if you do a GMPC right, you've only made an NPC.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Oct 2015 01:56:48 No.43293436 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43293365
A good DMPC doesn't stand out because a good DMPC is just an NPC.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Oct 2015 02:06:10 No.43293603 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43294403

The kind of guide I follow with DMPCs:

1) They exist to serve a niche, specific purpose to the players beyond a basic NPC. Usually to fill a gap in their needed skillset (healing, paladin to keep them from murderhobo antics, or rogue to help them unearth information and other things in cities). Combatant roles, if for whatever reason should be selected, should be weaker than the current PCs, and should never deliver any final blows even to generic encounters.

2) They are not there to draw away from the PCs in terms of story or their own decisions. They should not interfere with the natural course of the game.

3) They should have their own motives, as such only grouping with the party for short periods of time usually due to mutually beneficial terms. They may reoccur in the future, especially if the players taken a liking to them, but again they are best in minute doses.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 26 Oct 2015 02:33:40 No.43294008 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43294288

>>43291429
Non-combat wizards are bad news too.

>Playing a deicide campaign at 7th level
>Watched as gods and shit fought each other
>Roll up combat character
>There's one fight with some faggot angel
>This is the only fight
>Got a wizard DMPC
>Had a not-TARDIS carriage and could perform mass teleport
>teleported us to the other side of the world to rob the bank of the giant not-final fantasy nation
>he did all the work
>Then we get the assassin DMPC
>We somehow get to the under dark
>Elves or whatever surround us
>Sweet, combat
>Assassin DMPC say, "I've got this"
>Literally teleports or 'shadow hops' around and slits the throat of about 11 elves before we can say anything
>Next session the wizard DMPC takes this black staff that apparently has a god trapped in it and loads it into some elven magic cannon
>Proceeds to shoot said god at heaven(still in the underdark)
>Snipe not-Archangel Gabriel(the highest lieutenant of not-judeochristian god) out of heaven.
>Angel falls within walking distance of the city
>The dwarf plucks the angel feathers
>My character quits
>Proceed to have an emotional breakdown in character
>Literally so in character I cry in real life
>Despite the Shit-tier DMing I still manage to roleplay better than any of the players ever had.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Oct 2015 05:28:44 No.43294035 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43294083 >>43294548

In our game of RT we've had a whole officer cadre DMPC'ed, apart from player characters. The players loved some, really hated the others and had genuine feelings for all of them. They were depressed when one died, cried when another sacrificed himself, cheered when another survived, started murmuring when another appeared etc. It was a great game. GMs who say that GMPC's can't be done well or bullshit like "they have to be impartial" don't know how to GM and weave a story.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Oct 2015 05:37:13 No.43294083 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43294035
You need to learn what the difference between NPCs and DMPCs is, anon.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Oct 2015 06:09:30 No.43294288 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43296873

>>43294008
That's entirely your fault for being with that group. If you don't quit out or chastise the DM after the first time his DMPC steals the limelight, that's on you.

Continuing play AFTER the DMPC one-shots 11 dudes, is unforgiveable. If you were smart, you'd have died gloriously trying to kill the harbinger death ninja DMPC. Politely excused yourself from the table, never associated with that person for any game ever again. Hell, I wouldn't even play along side someone like that.

With the shit he pulled, I can only expect his personality is an better than his DMing.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Oct 2015 06:27:17 No.43294403 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43294540

>>43293603
The paladin example is one I'd be wary of, because that can lead to the GMPC taking a position of authority over the party and that can rub players the wrong way. I'd recommend not doing that.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Oct 2015 06:46:07 No.43294504 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43291062

In my opinion, DMPC's if used.

- Should be initiated by the party, or taken on after a suggestion by the DM. "The king offers to send a spearman or two with you to root out the gnolls."

- should play second fiddle to the party at all times, rp wise.

- Should play a support role that the party needs and wants.

I manage DMPC's by allowing my players to hire 'henchmen'. Essentially, I take the NPC stat blocks from the MM, tweak them in minor ways, and let the PC's know that there are goons for hire, if they want. Players give the NPC's directions, I make the rolls and whatnot.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Oct 2015 06:50:39 No.43294540 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43294403

Agreed. Fuck the moral guidance, if my players want to torch an orphanage, I'll make the rolls and they can deal with the consequences.

Besides, murderhobo ing is fun.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Oct 2015 06:51:42 No.43294548 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43294035
Those are just regular NPCs.

DMPC would be like the DM playing the Trader and you are all goons he bosses around.
(Which CAN be a game premise, but generally not what you EXPECT of an RT game.)

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Oct 2015 06:55:17 No.43294577 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43291062
There's no such thing as a good GMPC, just follower NPCs.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Oct 2015 07:01:48 No.43294617 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43293271
I disagree. I have a DMPC in my game people love it. Last week one of my players was dying and refused to be saved on account that it would have meant my DMPC's demise.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Oct 2015 09:28:02 No.43295536 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43295563

Its funny, our group adopted a rotating DM system after a little while so that our forever-DM could play occasionally and I usually ended up DMing. For some reason he always favours my characters and in this particular campaign he made it so I was the long lost King (didn't put it in my backstory but whatever) and the Chosen one. However whenever I DM a session, I shit all over my character. So far in the sessions I've DMed, my PC has been: kidnapped, tricked into starting a pointless war, watched his wife be killed, accidentally endangered the lives of the rest of the party and so on. It's just funny to watch as my friend makes me the hero in all of his sessions but he becomes a cosmic chew toy in all of mine.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Oct 2015 09:31:27 No.43295563 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43295536
>he just generally likes you or your character more than the others
>he is grateful for you GMing to relieve him from the spot
>he finds the flipping contrast hilarious and is going to play it to the hilt

noko

noko Mon 26 Oct 2015 11:44:59 No.43296649 Report Delete

Quoted By:

most of my games have a DMPC as no one in our area likes to play the healer. Usually I'll just make a pacifist cleric of a non-violent religion that just heals/slight buffing. If they're totally stumped as to where to go sometimes I'll use the DMPC to remind them that they got a clue at some point and they'll usually figure it out from there.

tl;dr make a PC, play an NPC

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Oct 2015 11:52:33 No.43296708 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43297407

>>43291062
My game has a Bard, again because no-one chose healer. However I made him the other players' *client*. Their job is to protect him in all the crazy crap that happens to him. I also made him very much not-optimised and more than a bit silly, but he will follow the PCs lead if danger presents itself.

Thus I present Scoopi Fiasco, dwarven bard extraordinaire. He hates everything and isn't shy about saying as such. He bares grudges. He doesn't think much of his companions' abilities but he didn't hire them, his management company did. His brand of dwarven rap is the hot new thing in the mountains and now he's taking this show on the road!

He is a very useful tool for me in many ways. Subtly pointing out clues, healing PCs, providing a goal for the players (protect the client!) adding humour and when needed pushing the party onwards when they're really overthinking whether a door may or may not be trapped.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Oct 2015 12:09:57 No.43296873 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43294288
He was like 16 or 17 at the time and this was my only group. I ended up leaving for about a year before I came back. They're much better and he learned his lesson from that campaign. He runs a really fun Harry Potter universe wizard game.

At the time, I didn't even know about DMPCs as a thing, so I didn't understand what was going on until the last few sessions.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Oct 2015 12:20:24 No.43296963 Report Delete

Quoted By:

I've only DMed in one shots, but the only time I used a DMPC, he wasn't even around half the time, exploring separate parts of the temple they were all trapped in.

The only combat he got involved in was a puzzle fight, and the only thing I really had him do was act as an example for how it worked(though I did fudge him to go first to that end).

Other than that, my regular DM didn't technically use DMPCs. Our characters owned a space mercenary group and there were a number of other Not!PCs that were similar level to us, and beyond interacting with them at the base, they rarely got involved in combat with us, as they were usually out on other jobs that were too below us to bother doing ourselves.

Sometimes when we needed a break from the main campaign, we'd do a sidegame where we take one of the other characters and flesh them out a bit more ourselves

The DM called this Half-A-Character sessions. We'd get what we DO know about the character and go from there. For example, I got one midget insectoid, and we knew he was the firm's bomb specialist, and that his race have a history of forming addictions easily(due to events that happened in the race's lore).

So I took that and decided to give him ALL the addictions. He smokes, he drinks, he smokes, he gambles, he smokes, and in his downtime, he's also smoking. He's a midget and gambles, so Halfling for their luck racial power(4e btw). Bombs, so take a Chaos Sorcerer and reflavor the hell out of it and bombs bombs bombs.

So yeah, thats how DMPCs usually work in our game.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Oct 2015 12:22:25 No.43296978 Report Delete

Quoted By:

None of my groups ever roll a healer. Mostly because I play with brand new players and
>lol how do I spell

So I usually just sprinkle health potions in convenient locations.

Anonymous

Anonymous Mon 26 Oct 2015 12:26:37 No.43297017 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43297407

A "good" DMPC is really just a recurring NPC.

Anything else is redflags gtfo abandoned campaign

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 26 Oct 2015 12:48:42 No.43297265 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43291062

Remember that games you run are not your novels.

It's your job to facilitate an interactive story for your players, not tell one to them.

A DMPC happens when the DM decides to give the game a "protagonist", unaware the players are supposed to be filling that role.

Creating an NPC who follows the party around and fills some crucial role no one in the group can fill themselves isn't DMPCing until that NPC starts stealing the spotlight. That NPC can tell the party he needs help with a family thing, inform them of some ancient treasure he knows of, or even betray them to the villain. That's all fine.

What isn't fine is when he tells the party "nah don't worry, I got this" then proceeds to fight the BBEG mano a mano and win.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Mon 26 Oct 2015 13:00:33 No.43297407 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43297017
The more I read, the more it seems you can have a comfy middle section where the NPC is important to the party but not some kind of attention whore or para-deity that outshines the players. You could also have them be more of a job or part of a contract, I guess, like >>43296708.

Here's the thing; the term is almost purely derogatory. You cannot make a player character because all of the GM characters are non-player by definition.

My question is whether a non-player character--who is not a sack of shit self-insert and serves some utility--that tries to stick with the party until death or demotivation is indeed what one might call a "recurring" NPC.

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