/tg/ - Traditional Games » Thread #43309332

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Pathfinder General /pfg/

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 03:05:52 No.43309332 View Reply Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43309936 >>43312790 >>43313456

Pathfinder General /pfg/

"Can an alchemist leave their mutagen/cognatogen to brew in the background for an hour?" edition

If you are asking for build advice, please mention which third-party books are allowed.

Unified /pfg/ link repository:
http://pastebin.com/NYB3QyVp

Previous thread: >>43301759

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 03:23:51 No.43309472 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43309688 >>43310060

>>43308885
>Catch Off-Guard (Combat)
>You do not suffer any penalties for using an improvised melee weapon. Unarmed opponents are flat-footed against any attacks you make with an improvised melee weapon.
>Be a rogue
>Backstab mother fuckers with motherfuckers

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 03:35:23 No.43309552 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43309688 >>43310068

Stat me, /pfg/.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 03:53:56 No.43309688 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43310552

>>43309472
There's a Dwarf Fortress meme for this

Something to the effect of 'the flying corpse is lodged in the lion's spine'

>>43309552
Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Gimmicky Bullshit)

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 04:03:33 No.43309756 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43309761

"DR 10/magic"

Does this mean that attacking with a magical weapon bypasses the DR completely?

If I hit them with a magic weapon for 11 damage, they take 11 damage, but if I attacked them with a normal unenhanced weapon for 11 they'd take 1 damage?

Also, does a +1 weapon bypass this 10/magical dr?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 04:03:53 No.43309761 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43309921

>>43309756
Correct and yes it does.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 04:31:19 No.43309921 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43309961 >>43309965

>>43309761

Thanks, although I have another question.

Bless weapon states that "The weapon is treated as having a +1 enhancement bonus for the purpose of bypassing the DR of evil creatures or striking evil incorporeal creatures (though the spell doesn't grant an actual enhancement bonus)."

So, does this mean that a blessed weapon automatically bypasses the DR of evil shit IF it explicitly states, say, "DR 5/cold iron or good" and automatically bypasses magical dr of evil creatures because it's treated as being +1?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 04:33:43 No.43309936 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43309332
>"Can an alchemist leave their mutagen/cognatogen to brew in the background for an hour?"

I'd rule that you have to check in on it at least once every ten minutes, to add specific ingredients at certain times, stir it, and so on.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 04:37:26 No.43309961 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43309980

>>43309921

>So, does this mean that a blessed weapon automatically bypasses the DR of evil shit IF it explicitly states, say, "DR 5/cold iron or good" and automatically bypasses magical dr of evil creatures because it's treated as being +1?
Kind of. Yes, it would bypass DR 5/cold iron or good... but not because of the effective +1. It would bypass it but because the spell makes the weapon count as good-aligned, which satisfies the "or good" part of the DR.

If an evil monster just had "DR 5/cold iron", for example, then bless weapon wouldn't help you, because neither a good weapon nor a +1 weapon would overcome DR X/cold iron.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 04:38:18 No.43309965 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43309971 >>43309980

>>43309921
>The weapon is treated as having a +1 enhancement bonus for the purpose of bypassing the DR of evil creatures or striking evil incorporeal creatures (though the spell doesn't grant an actual enhancement bonus). The weapon also becomes good-aligned, which means it can bypass the DR of certain creatures.

Let's break this down.
1) It makes an ordinary weapon be treated as a +1 magic weapon. Ie if an evil creature has DR 5/magic then your normal nonmagic weapon affected by Bless Weapon will ignore all that DR.
I /don't think/ it ever gives you that +1 to hit or damage.

2) Some creatures have something like DR5/good. As the spell says, this makes the weapon good-aligned so it also ignores DR like that. The target actually doesn't have to be evil for this effect to work.

3) If an evil creature has something like DR5/cold iron , then you're out of luck. The spell doesn't really help you with that.

3.5) Not related to DR, but nonmagic weapons simply pass through incorporeal creatures. But now if it's evil, you can hit it at half damage like other magic weapons.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 04:39:49 No.43309971 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43309965
>I /don't think/ it ever gives you that +1 to hit or damage.
This is correct: it specifically states that it doesn't actually have a +1 bonus, only that it counts as having a +1 bonus specifically for determining whether or not it overcomes damage reduction.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 04:40:52 No.43309980 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43309992

>>43309961
>>43309965

Ah, so the alignment specific DR bypass will only bypass DR if it explicitly states that, yes, that alignment can bypass this DR.

A +1 weapon might bypass DR 10/Magic, but it won't bypass DR 10/Good and such, as it's the goodness that damages, not the magic or something.

Thanks anons.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 04:43:42 No.43309992 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43310191

>>43309980
One last thing to keep in mind:
Higher enhancement bonuses also let weapons count as more stuff, just by sheer magic power.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/special-abilities#TOC-Damage-Reduction
So a +3 magic weapon automatically overcomes DR/cold iron no matter what it's made of, etc.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 04:58:44 No.43310060 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43310478

>>43309472
>>Be a rogue
>>Backstab mother fuckers with motherfuckers

OR just be a goddamn Barbarian since you don't actually have the strength score to wield a human without penalties.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 04:59:46 No.43310068 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43309552
EWP: Huge Chakram.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 05:01:59 No.43310080 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43310087 >>43310197

There's nothing preventing a magus from using reach weapons to spellstrike right?

I feel like making a necromancer magus with a whip.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 05:03:39 No.43310087 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43310138 >>43310164

>>43310080
Not really, but why would you?

If you use reach weapons, you miss out on making an extra attack with spell combat.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 05:13:11 No.43310138 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43310168 >>43310187

>>43310087
Wait, is the extra off hand attack with spell combat a touch attack with the spell using your off hand, while also touch attacking with your weapon?

Because that would be fucking weird.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 05:15:41 No.43310164 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43310187

>>43310087
No you fucking don't. Spellstrike clearly says that you can do that INSTEAD of using Spell Combat to dual-wield a touch attack spell.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 05:17:09 No.43310168 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43310138
Doesn't look like it, but given the general's obsession with nalpha-striking as many shocking grasps as possible in one round. They may have gotten stuck in "touch" mode.

>At 1st level, a magus learns to cast spells and wield his weapons at the same time. This functions much like two-weapon fighting, but the off-hand weapon is a spell that is being cast. To use this ability, the magus must have one hand free (even if the spell being cast does not have somatic components), while wielding a light or one-handed melee weapon in the other hand. As a full-round action, he can make all of his attacks with his melee weapon at a –2 penalty and can also cast any spell from the magus spell list with a casting time of 1 standard action (any attack roll made as part of this spell also takes this penalty). If he casts this spell defensively, he can decide to take an additional penalty on his attack rolls, up to his Intelligence bonus, and add the same amount as a circumstance bonus on his concentration check. If the check fails, the spell is wasted, but the attacks still take the penalty. A magus can choose to cast the spell first or make the weapon attacks first, but if he has more than one attack, he cannot cast the spell between weapon attacks.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 05:20:15 No.43310187 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43310225 >>43310310

>>43310138
You can make a standard attack with Spellstrike, followed by an offhand attack using spellcombat albeit with a (negligible) penalty.

>>43310164
At 2nd level, whenever a magus casts a spell with a range of “touch” from the magus spell list, he can deliver the spell through any weapon he is wielding as part of a melee attack. Instead of the free melee touch attack normally allowed to deliver the spell, a magus can make one free melee attack with his weapon (at his highest base attack bonus) as part of casting this spell. If successful, this melee attack deals its normal damage as well as the effects of the spell. If the magus makes this attack in concert with spell combat, this melee attack takes all the penalties accrued by spell combat melee attacks. This attack uses the weapon’s critical range (20, 19–20, or 18–20 and modified by the keen weapon property or similar effects), but the spell effect only deals ×2 damage on a successful critical hit, while the weapon damage uses its own critical modifier.

>If the magus makes this attack in concert with spell combat, this melee attack takes all the penalties accrued by spell combat melee attacks.

>If the magusmakes this attack in concert with spell combat

>attack in concert with spell combat

Yes, YOU fucking CAN

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 05:20:19 No.43310188 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43310349

Has anyone watched a Chinese Ghost Story II?
How do I stat the Taoist monk from that?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 05:21:02 No.43310191 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43309992

Yeah, this is an important one that a lot of people miss out on. There are very few types of DR that a +5 weapon can't bypass.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 05:22:03 No.43310197 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43310231

>>43310080

Especially if you take Bladebound. A whip is a slashing weapon, so technically it can count as your "black blade". It's awesome.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 05:25:34 No.43310225 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43310243

>>43310187
Sorry, yeah. I misunderstood. I thought we were talking about getting off two spells in one turn like that.

Yes, Spellstrike's main feature is that you get to hit shit twice with it.

However, wouldn't that work just as well with a reach weapon?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 05:26:08 No.43310231 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43310285

>>43310197
Or you could pick an Urumi, the sword-whip, as a far better alternative. 1d8 18-20/x2

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 05:28:52 No.43310243 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43310262 >>43310277

>>43310225
Only if you could somehow reach an enemy 10 ft away with your arm, which whip-mancer is trying to do.

Then again, he can do that with Eldritch Heritage (Aberration?)

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 05:32:53 No.43310262 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43310289

>>43310243
>he can deliver the spell through any weapon he is wielding as part of a melee attack.
Reach is still a melee attack.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 05:34:29 No.43310270 Report Delete

Quoted By:

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 05:35:50 No.43310277 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43310289

>>43310243
But if you're using it through the weapon, isn't your range by fucking default your attack's reach? Even if the spell itself is a touch spell, you're using it through your weapon. Makes no sense that you'd still be concerned about touching them.

It just says that when you cast a touch spell (which you do by using Spell Combat to hit someone, then cast the Shocking Grasp, for example, you can discharge it through a weapon. That weapon has to be one-handed for Spell Combat to work, but there are one-handed reach weapons.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 05:37:49 No.43310285 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43310231

The awesomeness of the whip is 15ft. melee touch attacks. If you want a pure damage build, sure, there are better weapons... but pure damage is not the only build.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 05:38:19 No.43310289 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43310299 >>43310300 >>43310302 >>43310318 >>43310334

>>43310262
>>43310277
Let me explain.
Your spellstrike uses your main weapon i.e. the whip.

Your offhand delivers the second extra touch attack through spell combat. And touch attacks are only 5ft. unless you have tentacles for arms.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 05:40:09 No.43310299 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43310341

>>43310289
>At 2nd level, whenever a magus casts a spell with a range of “touch” from the magus spell list, he can deliver the spell through any weapon he is wielding as part of a melee attack.
>he can deliver the spell through any weapon he is wielding as part of a melee attack.
>Touch spell through any weapon he is wielding

You are objectively wrong. Eat shit.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 05:40:18 No.43310300 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43310341

>>43310289

Except you can use Spellstrike to make that attack using your weapon, which is a whip, which has a reach of 15ft. It's not just Spell Combat, but the combination of Spell Combat and Spellstrike that makes this work.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 05:40:22 No.43310302 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43310341

>>43310289
Spell Combat is not limited to touch spells. Only restriction is that it can only take 1 standard action to cast.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 05:42:26 No.43310310 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43310341

>>43310187
You can spellstrike as many times as you can cast touch attacks in one round(this is why swift action casting on the magus gets hilarious) OR if it has multiple charges, you can force it to apply on every attack you can make that round so long as you still have charges.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 05:43:29 No.43310315 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43310330 >>43316531

Have some Red Knight

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 05:44:01 No.43310318 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43312605

>>43310289
No. Look. It goes like this:
>Magus attacks with one-handed melee weapon.
>Spell combat goes off.
>Magus casts a touch spell.
>Casting a touch spell makes Spellstrike go off.
>Magus gets to make a free weapon attack to discharge a touch spell
>Magus hits shit again, this time with additional spell power

It's really not complicated, and totally works with a reach weapon.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 05:46:19 No.43310330 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43310315

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 05:46:42 No.43310334 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43310346

>>43310289
You don't get a SECOND "extra touch attack", since you can't cast two spells per turn like that. Spellstrike is simply an ability that triggers when you cast a touch range spell, which is what you do with spell combat.

Spellstrike is a feature that gives you additional options when casting a touch spell, not an additional touch spell on top of Spell Combat's spell.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 05:47:50 No.43310341 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43310344

>>43310299
>>43310300
>>43310302
>>43310310

I was assuming he's attempting to cast a spell through spellstrike AND spellcombat.
This still means he can only deliver one spell per round (unless said spell can has multiple charges)

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 05:49:03 No.43310344 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43310341

Yeah, that's not something you can do. You can't cast multiple spells per turn like that, since Spellstrike does not actually facilitate casting a touch spell, only the release of said touch spell through another way (I.E your weapon).

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 05:49:27 No.43310346 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43310366

>>43310334
Actually, based off the faqs, a Magus can hold a spell on his offhand, even while he's doing spellcombat.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 05:49:37 No.43310349 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43310188
Anyone?
Specifically PoW

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 05:53:23 No.43310365 Report Delete

Quoted By:

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 05:54:03 No.43310366 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43310346
He can, but you can't actually cast multiple spells per turn. So ostensibly you COULD get off multiple touch spells per turn, but you couldn't do that every turn.

I mean, keeping a touch spell in your off-hand has nothing to do with Spell Combat by itself any more anyway, since it's just something you can do with those spells. They're in your hand until you touch something to discharge it.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 05:58:52 No.43310394 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43310427

Have some Iomedae

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 06:03:34 No.43310410 Report Delete

Quoted By:

So, is Bladed Scarf Dancer any good?

Been thinking up some potential allies the PC's might encounter in my next campaign.

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4u Tue 27 Oct 2015 06:08:27 No.43310427 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43310435 >>43310437 >>43310441

>>43310394
Anyone have any ideas on how a group of martial PCs might beat a fine/diminutive swarm?
The wizard (spellslinger) is out for the session, and our Pally/Rogue/Ranger/Archer have literally zero means of even damaging a mosquito swarm (running Feast of Ravenmoor for the first time), aside from the 1d6 (negated) +1 fire damage from an improvised torch weapon. I was thinking of letting them use the torch smoke to sort of "disperse" the swarm, as non-lethal damage, but that seems kinda cheesy.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 06:10:12 No.43310435 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43310470

>>43310427
Flaming oil? Just throw flaming oil on it. Or one of those alchemical spell grenades you can get (thunderstones and shit).

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 06:10:16 No.43310437 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43310492

>>43310427
Its not cheesy if its reasonable. Swarms are treated ridiculously in Pathfinder anyway.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 06:11:29 No.43310441 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43310463 >>43310472 >>43310492

>>43310427

Alchemical items. Drop a boulder on it. Catch it in a cloak and stomp on it. Splash your waterskin on it. Basically, do anything other than the cliched "I'm a martial, therefore I must be a complete dumbass who only knows how to swing my sword at things!"

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 06:14:59 No.43310463 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43310492

>>43310441
It's amazing how much the rules can make you lose sight of things. I mean, the question is LITERALLY "My character's are accosted by swarms of bugs, can they prevail without the mighty spellmonkey!?"
I mean, I know martials have trouble in these games, but let's not fucking add to it by being retarded as well.

Of course, I've seen DMs go completely retarded with rules blindness too, so sometimes it's better to assume you can only do strictly what the rules tell you to. But not when you're the fucking DM yourself.

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4u Tue 27 Oct 2015 06:15:43 No.43310470 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43310435
We're in the middle of BumfuckVille, so literally nothing at the stores, and our PCs are level 3, so no one has any kind of AoE items. Oil is probably the only solution I can think of, but they'd need to make some kind of molotov out of their lamp oil I imagine at this point, yes?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 06:16:07 No.43310472 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43310482 >>43310516

>>43310441
>anything other than the cliched "I'm a martial, therefore I must be a complete dumbass who only knows how to swing my sword at things!"

The problem, of course, is that with pathfinder rules, that's how all martials turn up because the rulings for anything else they can try make them entirely worse options 98% of the time.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 06:17:25 No.43310478 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43310060
You can just use a Gnome or a Halfling cohort then.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 06:18:04 No.43310481 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43310501

What is the penalty for using Disguise within your own size category?

Can a 4' 1" hyper-manlet pass themselves off as a 7' 11" big guy with ease?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 06:18:08 No.43310482 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43310510

>>43310472

Except in the 2% where that literally doesn't work, like now.

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4u Tue 27 Oct 2015 06:19:10 No.43310492 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43310437
True.
>>43310441
>>43310463
Yeah, it is easy to lose sight. I'm not terribly experienced as a GM, so I don't want to make encounters too easy, but I suppose you're right; if you step back, killing a swarm of bugs is not impossible, though it is scary and dangerous, as IRL.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 06:19:55 No.43310501 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43310481
Theres no penalty for disguises within your size category, but your GM might make it painful for you to pull off.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 06:21:24 No.43310510 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43310580

>>43310482
I'm saying 'it's not entirely their fault that they don't use their creativity immediately, because all the previous times they've tried, the game rulings have probably shot them down'.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 06:22:12 No.43310516 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43310527

>>43310472
Are there any rules for "I just stomp on the fucking bugs"?

I think a fighter should get to make iterative attacks with his foot when stomping bugs based on his BAB.

Alternatively, one could dump their water skin on them.

Doesn't work with fliers but yeah.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 06:23:18 No.43310527 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43310537 >>43310550

>>43310516
>I think a fighter should get to make iterative attacks with his foot when stomping bugs based on his BAB.

But anon, unless he has improved unarmed strike, he'd provoke an attack of opportunity from the bugs!
Only monks can stomp the bugs safely without feat investment!

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 06:24:11 No.43310537 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43310561

>>43310527

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 06:26:08 No.43310550 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43311957

>>43310527
Fear not anon, as long as the set of armor you are wearing comes with boots you count as armed for the purpose of bug stomping while wearing them, and thus do not incur attacks of opportunity from tiny insects.

The Monk, however, apparently does not give a fuck and just goes around stomping on black widows with his bare feet.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 06:26:21 No.43310552 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43309688
I thought that was 'You struck the Bronze Colossus in the head with the fluffy wambler! The Bronze Colossus's head flies off!'?

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4u Tue 27 Oct 2015 06:27:27 No.43310561 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43310576 >>43310589 >>43314692

>>43310537
I know he was joking, but there should be a huge disclaimer (and there very well may be) that sound logic and reason should override rules in the case of restrictions on what one can and cannot do.
Unrelated, but anyone tried out the Emerald Spire Superdungeon? Wondering just how combat-intensive it is, not that that's a bad thing.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 06:29:08 No.43310569 Report Delete

Quoted By:

Is it bad that I want to play the campaign wrecking wizard for once? The shit-ender while the campaign is centered around the fighter's power level?

I think it may be fun, doing your best to pretend you're giving 100% while only giving 5%.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 06:30:31 No.43310576 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43310561
I've played about halfway through it. It's pretty combat heavy save one of the levels where you can talk your way through it.

Had a player die to drowning rules, so that was something.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 06:30:58 No.43310580 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43310510

Only if they have a bad GM.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 06:32:45 No.43310589 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43310561
>I know he was joking, but there should be a huge disclaimer (and there very well may be) that sound logic and reason should override rules in the case of restrictions on what one can and cannot do.

In this case at least, the rules actually do match up with logic: swarms don't have attacks (since they just do automatic swarm damage to those inside them), so they can't make attacks of opportunity.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 07:22:44 No.43310885 Report Delete

Quoted By:

How's the mesmerist /pfg/?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 07:23:47 No.43310893 Report Delete

Quoted By:

Thinking of rolling a noble/knightly dwarf type. Caught between a Stonelord Paladin built around reach weapons or a Cavalier mounted atop an armored bear or boar. Thoughts?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 07:37:02 No.43310980 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43311534

Has Ssalarn made any indication of when the updates for tzocatl are supposed to drop?

A Wild Anon Appeared

A Wild Anon Appeared Tue 27 Oct 2015 07:59:21 No.43311122 Report Delete

Quoted By:

Has anybody posted a copy of the player companion Occult Origins yet?

Elric !iXwZjp.UKU

Elric !iXwZjp.UKU Tue 27 Oct 2015 08:48:47 No.43311534 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43311873

>>43310980
Last I'd heard he was still working on them. They're taking longer than expected because of the need to rebalance the scaling. Don't forget that all of us are working on two or three projects at a time. Ssalarn's still got to finish up Akasha and the playtest for Arcforge started up.

And all of this is on top of our actual jobs and family life.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 09:23:52 No.43311873 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43311534
Sure, I'm just hyp/impatient for its eventual rerelease

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 09:31:48 No.43311957 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43312189

>>43310550

Speaking of, is Improved Unarmed Strike and Greater Unarmed Strike good investments when you think you'll get in a brawl/fist-fight every now and then?

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 09:54:36 No.43312166 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43312239 >>43312243 >>43312633

Fun fact:
Across all the different disciplines there are exactly 716 different maneuvers+stances.

Not counting the weird stuff that only PrCs get.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 09:56:58 No.43312189 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43312437

>>43311957
You only get so many feats, anon. Use them wisely.

The only class that can afford to be haphazard with them is the fighter, and they have many other problems.

But for a real answer to your question, getting feats for situational 'maybe it'll happen' uses is rarely a good idea.
Just buy a pair of gauntlets, or get a cracked ioun stone and wayfinder and have the resonance give you improved unarmed strike for free.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 10:02:58 No.43312239 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43312302

>>43312166
Did you count psionic powers?

Elric !iXwZjp.UKU

Elric !iXwZjp.UKU Tue 27 Oct 2015 10:03:37 No.43312243 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43312302

>>43312166
I feel like that's useful to know. Not sure what it's useful for just yet, but useful nonetheless.

I might ask you to share the spreadsheet with me later once I'm at a place I can download it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 10:10:01 No.43312302 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43312340

>>43312239
...Why would psionic powers count as maneuvers?

>>43312243
Yeah, I fully intend to share this once it's in a presentable state. I'm making it to help some of my players (and me as well) pick maneuvers.
The rightmost three columns are only filled in for golden lion so far, and it's a manual job.

The left three main columns are all scraped off the pfsrd/playtest docs, and I'm worried about all the cases where the smalltext doesn't match the fulltext, because I know there are a decent handful of those but I'm not sure which ones they are.

I also need to think about how to better arrange the extra data. At the moment I'm considering splitting 'damage' into 'extra damage', 'maximum damage' (For animus/psionic augmentation, or cursed razor hitting cursed targets), and 'flat damage', for when weapon damage is entirely replaced.
Not sure what else it needs, though.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 10:13:43 No.43312340 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43312365

>>43312302
>Why would psionic powers count as maneuvers?
I wanted to know if there are more maneuvers than powers or not.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 10:14:07 No.43312344 Report Delete

Quoted By:

Is there any way to use discipline weapon shapes or emulate ranged weapon to produce two ranged weapons?

I'd like to use two crossbows or pistols.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 10:17:08 No.43312365 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43312340
Oh, I misunderstood the question.

I haven't counted powers, and that will actually be a bit harder to do, as I know there are a number of existing powers that aren't on the pfsrd.

Does Ultimate Psionics list all existing powers?
If it does, then I might be able to work something out.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 10:23:18 No.43312417 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43312447 >>43312454 >>43312471

There's some guy on the Paizo forums who seems to think any martial that doesn't have 20 STR at lvl 1 is bad.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 10:25:39 No.43312437 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43312963

>>43312189
>Just buy a pair of gauntlets, or get a cracked ioun stone and wayfinder and have the resonance give you improved unarmed strike for free.

>Implying a proper fisticuffs would ever allow you to wear gauntlets or magical items.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 10:26:23 No.43312447 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43312417
... even dex-whores and archers (who do like strength but shouldn't be skewing their stats so heavily in the point-buy phase)?

I'm pretty fucking sure a gunslinger does better WITHOUT 20str than if he sets his level 1 stats to that as well.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 10:26:57 No.43312454 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43312471 >>43312477

>>43312417
He's mostly right, though.
If you're a core martial and you're not optimized for damage, what are you even good for?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 10:27:26 No.43312460 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43312481 >>43312496

Guys, is there your generic cry of fear ability/spell in pathfinder? When, like, you howl, like warcry feat, but instead of boosting morale of your friends, your are putting a shaken condition on enemies.
I though bard will have some spell like this, but he only has your ordinary fear.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 10:28:35 No.43312471 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43312504 >>43312529 >>43312765

>>43312417

Isn't this an opinion held here as well? Whenever martials get brought up it's always about optimizing the fuck out of them, and that usually means cranking up ability scores at the expense of others.

Also 20 str is terrible, it costs +7 extra at character creation and only gives a +1 bonus to-hit and damage. The even numbers are always better for martials, such as 14-18-22.

>>43312454
>If you're a core martial and you're not optimized for damage, what are you even good for?

There's a difference between "dump stats and 20s at character creation are my thing" and "I'm making sure I'm not useless."

You can have a 16 in your combat stat and still feel like you're wrecking shit.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 10:29:03 No.43312477 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43312454
If your a martial that dies when something sneezes on you, what good are you?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 10:29:10 No.43312481 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43312460
>Aura of Despair! . . . . . . . . ... level 1.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 10:30:29 No.43312496 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43312460
Dazzling Display is close enough.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 10:31:17 No.43312504 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43312532 >>43312626

>>43312471
16 on the damage stat is solid at character creation; turns into an 18 with the right race choices.

Stick a few 14s elsewhere in exchange.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 10:33:02 No.43312529 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43312471

I kinda like 15s since with the +2 you get to 17 and then at lvl 4 you get the upgrade to 18.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 10:33:17 No.43312532 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43312504
>turns into an 18 with the right race choices.

I mean a 16 in your damage stat *after* picking your race, I'm currently the melee machine of the party and I'm working with 16-16-12-12-14-10

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 10:41:14 No.43312605 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43312659

>>43310318
Someone actually gets it

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 10:43:11 No.43312626 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43312504
16 is solid, sure.
But with two handed weapons, most martials are benefiting far more from 14-18-22, etc.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 10:43:55 No.43312633 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43312166
Path of War: More combos than you can shake your weapon of choice at.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 10:46:10 No.43312659 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43313445

>>43312605

I read through this last night and it makers understanding the whole thing soooo simple.
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2nler?A-Guide-to-Touch-Spells-Spellstrike-and-Spell

The point is that when you cast a touch spell, nothing actually happens. You hold the charge, but you make a free touch attack to deliver the spell. Spellstrike just means instead of using the free touch attack, you swing the weapon combined with the spell as a free weapon attac instead. Then since you used spell combat to cast that spell, you get a full round attack in addition.

You're still only doing 2 actions. You're casting a spell, and full round attacking, but the free touch attack from the spell becomes an extra weapon hit. Nothing is really changing.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 10:55:46 No.43312765 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43312471
I like to give my players 30pb,but no score over 18 after racial mods. It works out pretty well.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 10:58:09 No.43312785 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43313982

What skill covers Knowledge of Astronomy/planets/Astrology etc, but not necessarily shit like the Planes.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 10:58:49 No.43312790 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43309332
dumb animeposter

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 10:59:09 No.43312792 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43313042

Guys, there is a spell I want to pick for my list, because it is thematically appropriate
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/t/tremor-blast
>You create a minor earthquake that can trip creatures.
>Attempt a single combat maneuver check and apply the result against the CMD of every creature in the area.
Does this mean that I'll trip even my allies?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 11:01:55 No.43312821 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43312839 >>43312864 >>43312879 >>43312976

Reminder that POW is overPOWered, and that (air or earth) kinetistist is tier 4.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 11:03:35 No.43312839 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43312869

>>43312821
Yeah, yeah we got it. Here is your reply.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 11:05:18 No.43312864 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43312883

>>43312821
If more than half a class's unique class features are shit, the class is shit.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 11:05:52 No.43312869 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43312839
Just posting reminders for people who aren't in the know. If you already know then just disregard.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 11:06:42 No.43312879 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43312921

>>43312821
>POW is overPOWered

Core casting is OP. Core martials are not.

Therefore, OP martials helps with game balance.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 11:06:52 No.43312883 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43312864
>making up requirements.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 11:10:09 No.43312921 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43312951 >>43312958

>>43312879
The issue isn't the versitility, its the "does way more damage than they should at every level" pouncing barbarian damage is a problem, not a benchmark.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 11:12:45 No.43312951 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43312993

>>43312921
Just put on your robe and wizard hat and retreat to your fantastic demiplane wiznerd.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 11:13:16 No.43312958 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43312993

>>43312921
Then why even play a martial?

You're inadvertently advocating for caster supremacy here because martials can't do fucking jack if they're not doing damage.

That's the core basis behind playing a non-caster in the first place - if you're in a fight, hurt the other guy.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 11:13:32 No.43312963 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43312437
If you're in a fucking bout of fisticuffs, maybe don't waste your feat slots for that. Also maybe don't bust out your murderous unarmed fighting techniques in a bout of fisticuffs where you're not in mortal danger and trying to fight fairly.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 11:14:50 No.43312976 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43313019 >>43313069

>>43312821
Reminder that your an annoying memeposter who needs to stop plugging this every thread, that DSP is already fixing the damage levels, and that only a fairly well optimized Kineticist is tier 4, with the average being Tier 5.

Also having a Kineticist is now pointless since SoP Destruction+Nature Sphere does a better job without retarded burn mechanics and more crossclass versatility

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 11:16:18 No.43312993 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43313008 >>43313016 >>43313040 >>43314020

>>43312958
>>43312951
I want martials who are worth playing even if they cant one-turn-murder something two CR above them.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 11:17:55 No.43313008 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43313049

>>43312993
You must really hate Barbarians then.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 11:18:37 No.43313016 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43313049

>>43312993
>martials who are worth playing
>PoW martials do too much damage

Pick one, faggot - enough damage output or worthlessness.

Within this mechanical framework, you cannot have 'worth playing' and 'non-pounce barbarian damage output' at the same time.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 11:19:04 No.43313019 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43313073 >>43313129

>>43312976
Well somehow a mutagen can bring fighter to tier 4...why can't air+earth kinetistist do the same thing?

And sop isn't even a thing.

Also:
>muh breached hugbox!

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 11:20:49 No.43313040 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43313067

>>43312993
You realize that PoW does exactly that?
I mean sure the early level damage is a little too high at the moment but they are fixing that already.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 11:21:03 No.43313042 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43312792
Yes. Fix this with communal airwalk or some such

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 11:21:37 No.43313049 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43313077 >>43313198

>>43313008
No way. Was fun a hell. I made that AM PAYABLE BARBARIAN build. It is just really hard to design encounters for.

>>43313016
Actually... You can. Play a pow class with a low point buy or bad build. Still versatile, still fun, doesn't end encounters in one turn.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 11:22:45 No.43313067 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43313040
>are fixing
>have fixed
Maybe. I am cautiously optimistic.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 11:22:52 No.43313069 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43313161

>>43312976
Sphere's blasting is shitty unless you go for retarded Weather cheese.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 11:23:07 No.43313073 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43313114

>>43313019
Virt, take your pills. You are such a fag when you are off-meds.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 11:23:34 No.43313077 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43313143

>>43313049
>deliberately sabotage your build 'to keep from being overpowered'
>fun

Why don't you just roll a caster, m8, you pretty obviously hate martials anyways.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 11:26:12 No.43313114 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43313193 >>43313218

>>43313073
We do this every thread. I beach your hugbox, you cry, i post facts/builds, you stop replying.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 11:27:22 No.43313129 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43313333

>>43313019
That's because the Mutagen allows them to emulate Barbarians, and the Archetype itself gives then access to Alchemical Discoveries, which enhance their versatility with things like Wings, Fast Healing, Cognotogens, and other goodies, effectively making them into Mini-Barbarians.

Then again you would know this if you bothered to read the archetype instead of being a contrarian assmongers.

The reason why it doesn't work for Kineticist is because all the crappy options are part of the base class, and if only one way to build the class actually functions, you have a bad class.

Also SoP is a thing, hence why we've spent dozens of threads over the past year discussing it, then again that would require you to actually be paying attention to anything other than your own loudass faggotry.

Also
>Also:
>>muh breached hugbox!
Confirmed for virt. Please contract herpes from a hobo

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 11:28:30 No.43313143 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43313175 >>43313284

>>43313077
If wizard players can use the "I can just play my class less optimally" argument, why can't anyone else? It works for wizards, it works for PoW.

You're just mad because you don't get to be special any more.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 11:30:14 No.43313161 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43313253

>>43313069
it's at least serviceable and more fun than Kineticist

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 11:31:23 No.43313175 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43313143
Wizards can use that argument, but it's a shitty argument because it's not valid.

Wizards are OP unless they actively go out of their way to not use any of the major class features (ie. high-level spells) later on in the game.

Effectively crippling the party because if a PC is actively not using their capabilities to the fullest extent they are letting the party down because the party was banking on them using those powers, from a game mechanics POV.

The same has to be said of the PoW martials.

>You're just mad because you don't get to be special any more

What kind of fucked up logic is that? Martials should be as awesome as anyone else. This is how fucking game balance works - everyone does something they're good at, and they should be really, really good at that kind of thing.

For martials, it's damage output.

Get over it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 11:32:10 No.43313193 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43313114
Because we know its you. Your brand of faggotry, wording, and typing style are indistinguishable

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 11:32:43 No.43313198 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43313049
>It is just really hard to design encounters for.
Harder than "there are no charge lines to more than half of enemies"?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 11:34:06 No.43313218 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43313114
>you stop replying
We should start with this, but 4chan being 4chan I guess that's nigh-impossible. We managed with swashbuckler shitposter somehow though.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 11:36:40 No.43313253 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43313161
No, not really. It's super fucking shitty. At least the kineticist is the funny kinda shitty. Sphere blasting is just fucking bleh.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 11:38:25 No.43313284 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43313314 >>43313333

>>43313143
You mean we tell you how your damage outputs and minor accolades are pathetic at their expected levels, review your character sheets and point out how you've violated your own "standard build" rules, then you spend the whole thread screaming HUGBOX HUGBOX IM SUPERIOR until we realize trying to reason with you if fruitless?

Yeah, that's exactly what happens

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 11:41:02 No.43313314 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43313340

>>43313284
I'm not virt. I'm saying that PoW is fine and you don't have to go whole hog on it to still have an effective character /and that's a good thing/ because it's what casters have been able to get away with from day one.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 11:41:22 No.43313317 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43313346

I did it. I spent far too much on Hero Labs. God damn it.

BUILDPOSTER

BUILDPOSTER Tue 27 Oct 2015 11:42:29 No.43313333 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43313357 >>43313477 >>43313885

>>43313129
>Then again you would know this if you bothered to read the archetype instead of being a contrarian assmongers.
I ALSO built that "I am a playable fighter" build. Apart from the +4 to some stat, you get a fly spell for minutes a day, and a "heal 30 hp, over six turns", which i don't find impressive at all. The others ones are things like "if it bites you it might get sick" or "you get light fortification". yea...that isn't versatility, an it IT IS, then the air+earth kinetistist is easily a tier 4 as well. You don't get both.

I'm going to start wearing my name so you know that I'm the same guy

Let me recap the last "dozens of threads":

POW is overPOWered
>no it isn't
level 1 strikes too much damage, level 6 maneuver powers for full attack too much damage, monster manual useless
>silence/just make your own monsters

Kinetistist is tier 4
>muh archer warrior damage
Posts facts/builds, .8 of zen archer damage, with >100EHP and 1000 foot teleport and never using any resources
>but you can't use a hobgoblin race/but you don't deal pouncing barbarian damage/but WAAHHH

I mean just go read the last threads. I posted a kinetistist build, I posted the zen archer build, and I posted the AM PLAYABLE BARBARIAN & I am a playable archer fighter builds. I like to actually back up my claims with facts and numbers and verifiable things, not feefees.

>>43313284
Also, I don't think my builds are "bad" at all. Apart from using autistic attribute buys I don't see how I can squeze out more damage from level 12 builds. If you have suggestions I would love to hear them, but /pfg/ tends not to provide much of those.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 11:43:06 No.43313340 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43313410

>>43313314
Then why not just roll a better character while the caster rolls a better caster, and let the matter fucking lie?

BUILDPOSTER

BUILDPOSTER Tue 27 Oct 2015 11:43:30 No.43313346 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43313317
>not using YAPCG
literally why

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 11:44:32 No.43313357 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43313367

>>43313333
You should change that to Shitposter tbh fam.

BUILDPOSTER

BUILDPOSTER Tue 27 Oct 2015 11:45:21 No.43313367 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43313388

>>43313357
>tbh fam
?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 11:46:09 No.43313388 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43313396

>>43313367
>tbh
To be honest.

>fam

Some nigger slang that means 'family'

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 11:47:25 No.43313396 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43313388
Gods bless 4chanX.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 11:48:55 No.43313410 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43313477

>>43313340
The "PoW is overpPoWered" guy seems incapable of accepting the idea that just because you /can/ make something that does "too much" damage doesn't mean you have to. Its only "broken" if you choose to make it "broken." Somehow that's fine for spellcasters, but god forbid a martial character have the same leeway apparently.

PoW has a high floor. It's easy to build. That's a good thing. That means you can spend your time spreading stuff around and looking for actual /interesting/ things to do with your feats/items/class abilities/etc.

>Then why not just roll a better character while the caster rolls a better caster, and let the matter fucking lie?

That's totally fine too. The whole point I'm trying to make is that you should be building to the same optimization level as the rest of the party. PoW gives you a lot more leeway to do that.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 11:52:09 No.43313445 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43312659
>someone linked the guide I linked several generals ago when people first started talking about this crazy octuple Shocking Grasp "build"

Makes me feel kinda happy.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 11:52:50 No.43313456 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43313486 >>43313491 >>43313509

>>43309332
Howdy /tg/ coming here for a bit of advice. I've had an idea to run a game based loosely off of Megaman. I was hoping to stat up the Robot Masters as villians. Was going to use warforged as the base and go from there. How would you guys go about it? any suggestions?

BUILDPOSTER

BUILDPOSTER Tue 27 Oct 2015 11:54:57 No.43313477 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43313489 >>43314073

>>43313333
Anyways, let me update:

Daily reminder that POW is overPOWered (not too bad, and in the right direction, it just does too much damage and the POW guys say they are working on it)

Daily reminder that Kinetistist(air or earth) is tier 4

Daily reminder that archer-fighter is tier 4, while mutagen-fighter is still tier 5.

Daily reminder that /pfg/ is easily TRIGGERED!

>>43313410
>The "PoW is overpPoWered" guy seems incapable of accepting the idea that just because you /can/ make something that does "too much" damage doesn't mean you have to. Its only "broken" if you choose to make it "broken." Somehow that's fine for spellcasters, but god forbid a martial character have the same leeway apparently.
I like the leeway, it's just that I, like I think that most people here, judge things at a fairly high level of optimization. A well optimized POW class is dealing 1d8+2d6+str damage at level 1, while having great defenses and HP. At higher levels they are dealing even more, with super easy access to pounce.

The main issues with POW are that:
Low level: Strikes OP, stacking multiple +1d6 just kills things too easily.
High Level: Strikes fine, but mobility power + full attack OP, killing things way to easily.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 11:56:08 No.43313486 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43313456

Pathfinder isn't the right system. Heroes and Masterminds would fit better IMO.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 11:56:14 No.43313489 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43313538

>>43313477
>High Level: Strikes fine, but mobility power + full attack OP, killing things way to easily.
Except that wrong because damage actually drops off at mid levels

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 11:56:34 No.43313491 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43313542

>>43313456
Do you have a loosely-defined plot in mind? And what level are you looking at start the game at? How many PCs?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 11:57:59 No.43313509 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43313542

>>43313456
Which robot masters?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 11:58:51 No.43313518 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43313575 >>43313582 >>43313608

Working on a Warrior mid-High op build to compare the DPR numbers. Should I stick to Human, or pick a more exotic race? Strix will save me tons of WBL, for example.

Anyway, what was the per-round expected damage on the "T4 Kineticist" build?

BUILDPOSTER

BUILDPOSTER Tue 27 Oct 2015 11:59:00 No.43313523 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43314962

>>43302459
>>43299167
>>43299368
>>43300120
Anyways here are my builds. I'm always looking for advice on improving them.

BUILDPOSTER

BUILDPOSTER Tue 27 Oct 2015 12:00:01 No.43313538 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43313613

>>43313489
>high level does...
>except that is wrong because at mid level...
ReadingComprehension.jpg

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 12:00:26 No.43313542 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43313557 >>43313701

>>43313491
>>43313509

Yes I have a decent plot in mind. been working on it for a bit now. was going to run the setting in eberron hence the reason for pathfinder and not MM. As far as which robot masters just the original 8

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 12:01:27 No.43313557 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43313542
the level i plan to start them at is around lvl 5 and so far I have 4 players

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 12:02:30 No.43313575 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43313592

>>43313518
I'd stick to human. If you use strix or another exotic race someone will just use it as an excuse to prove your build "invalid."

BUILDPOSTER

BUILDPOSTER Tue 27 Oct 2015 12:02:49 No.43313582 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43313518
Probably human, depending on if you need the feat. usually archers are the go-to DPR builds, as they can actually deliver their damage to targets. Archery needs feats thus human.

BUILDPOSTER

BUILDPOSTER Tue 27 Oct 2015 12:03:49 No.43313592 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43313661

>>43313575
also this. I mean someone even gave me shit for using a hobgoblin race.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 12:04:58 No.43313608 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43313648

>>43313518

>>43300120
>>43301167

First part of the second post isn't actually about the kinesticist, but it goes on to talk about what happens when you factor AC into what the kineticist is doing.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 12:05:19 No.43313613 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43313718

>>43313538
>mid is not high
>therefore it is Impossible for mid level power level changes to carry on into high levels, so High level must have the same high damage potential of the original low level
Virt confirmed for being unable to use logical extrapolation of phrasing

BUILDPOSTER

BUILDPOSTER Tue 27 Oct 2015 12:08:41 No.43313648 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43313608
yep, and AC isn't negligible ether. The nice thing is that you can sacrifice some damage for touch AC via Cold Blast if you need it. The kinetistist also has the "flying at almost 1000 feet from you and can spend a turn teleporting 960 feet if It needs to", so even if you miss a few attacks the target can't do anything back to you. It has evasion and some good stats so long range fireballs tend to not work well enough.

If you need to, you can also sacrifice HP to go full nova, but I don't recommend it. All in all, less effective than a zen archer or fighter archer, but at least still in the same league.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 12:09:47 No.43313661 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43313709 >>43313718

>>43313592
While I won't fault you for using a Hobgoblin as a race, I do disagree with your claim that the Kineticist's damage is acceptable for their level.

As a primary damage dealer it's subpar. 960 ft. range doesn't change that because it'll rarely come up at all and can be matched by archers or spellcasters and I haven't seen much from the kineticist that justifies their damage levels being lower. They don't have much in the way of debuff or utility that can't be done better by someone else.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 12:12:51 No.43313701 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43313793 >>43313880

>>43313542
So Cut, Guts, Ice, Bomb, Fire, and Elec.

This is just my take on it, you can use whatever you need. One option is going for Construct Creation rules and modifying/adding weapons for that. It's the absolute closest thing to the source, only problem being that there's a bunch of spells that straight-up fuck over constructs, plus the natural immunity to magic which makes balancing harder.

If I was building with PC classes, Cut Man would probably be a Shield Champion Brawler with a special razor-sharp throwing shield that the PCs can pick up. Guts Man is a bit harder, but you could have him be a Barbarian with Hurling and a Sipping Jacket with Bull's Strength on it, maybe throwing in some Muleback Cords and a Heavyload Belt to make throwing blocks easier. Bomb Man is probably going to be an Alchemist who uses a lot of splash weapons and grenades that the PCs can pick up (maybe throwing in an unlimited supply or something to make it seem worth it for relatively cheap mundane items).

As for Ice Man, Fire Man and Elec Man I can't really think of much that would let the PCs grab their powers without custom magic items. Use your best judgement there.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 12:13:12 No.43313709 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43313661
>trying to have intelligent conversation with virt
Shit nigga what are you doing? We already tried to point that out to him yesterday and all he did was bitch

BUILDPOSTER

BUILDPOSTER Tue 27 Oct 2015 12:13:34 No.43313718 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43313751 >>43313785 >>43313880 >>43314271

>>43313613
you might be missing my argument.

Pre level 6: strikes do a lot of damage, and make the monster manual useless
Post level 9: maneuver powers + full attacks do a lot of damage, and make the monster manual useless.

>>43313661
>I do disagree with your claim that the Kineticist's damage is acceptable for their level.
And I do grant that it doesn't meet the fighter archer, zen archer, pouncing barbarian, or pally archer levels. I'm just concerend that not reaching those levels is equal to "not acceptable".

Also: a "tier 5" normal fighter archer only does about 15 less damage per round than the mutagen one I posted...so...what does that mean?

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 12:14:38 No.43313732 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43313767

Can you stat this plz? Core/APG/ARG/ACG

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 12:16:17 No.43313751 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43313885

>>43313718
>make the monster manual useless

So the GM should beef the monsters up.

Seriously. None of this is difficult to do.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 12:16:59 No.43313764 Report Delete

Quoted By:

Is Handsome Jack chaotic good turned chaotic evil?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 12:17:19 No.43313767 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43313732
Barbarian who put ranks into Profession (Librarian)?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 12:18:47 No.43313785 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43313885 >>43313905

>>43313718
Kineticist also has trouble with meeting damage from most gish classes, or their utility.

The difference between "normal" fighter and mutagen fighter is that mutagen fighter not only does more damage, it can also do other stuff, without having to turn to WBLmancy for the effect.

Flying for minutes a day doesn't seem that useful when you have a bow, but it does matter when you don't have one, /and/ it's a core part of your argument in favor of the Kineticist not being bad. That they can fly, I mean.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 12:19:22 No.43313793 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43313701
I haven't played pathfinder or 3.5 in a long time so this is gonna be a bit of a challenge for me. but I really like this idea. I'll probably run with it. Was tossing around the idea of possibly using the whole idea of having the lord of blades fill in for Protoman and the others working under him until the villain is revealed. going more for a PROTOMEN feel than the standard Wily incompetence. also looking to make the masters more generals in charge of specific models of custom warforged troops and so forth.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 12:21:31 No.43313823 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43313841 >>43313913 >>43313929 >>43314352 >>43314725 >>43315123

>all this shitposting in circles
>meanwhile I'm sitting here wondering what a monster-hunter's guild campaign would be like
>tfw will never have a witcher campaign where every week you had to hunt down and fight the monster(s) of the week
>every once in a while you wind up with an intelligent beast that just needs directions or something
>or is being chased by something worse
>in between MotW fights you could train, buy/make gear and tools, hit the tavern with your m8s, and go wenching
>tfw I will never get to participate in a campaign like this

Just fuck me up man.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 12:22:47 No.43313841 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43314179

>>43313823
That does sound pretty fun. My players are all into roleplay too much to be satisfied by something like this but sometimes I just want to smash monsters.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 12:25:11 No.43313880 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43313701
I don't think giving them custom magic items for custom attacks would be a problem, seems like the expected way to do it. I mean like, giving the PCs Muleback Cords and a Heavyload Belt won't actually give them a "throw heavy things around for lotta damage" power, so just make somethign that does.

>>43313718
>I'm just concerend that not reaching those levels is equal to "not acceptable".

Well, the sort of damage that qualifies as "enough" is never really defined. I think the general rule of thumb people use is that to be considered acceptable at dealing damage, you should be able to consistently take down CR-appropriate creatures in two rounds. That seems to be the standard most people use.

>Also: a "tier 5" normal fighter archer only does about 15 less damage per round than the mutagen one I posted...so...what does that mean?

I'm not sure what you're asking here, but the access to some discoveries is just as much a selling point of the Mutation Warrior as the extra damage from a mutagen is.

BUILDPOSTER

BUILDPOSTER Tue 27 Oct 2015 12:25:24 No.43313885 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43313941 >>43313954 >>43313991 >>43314070

>>43313751
see: >>43313333 , specifically, the "just make up your own monster" part. I mean you can, and it isn't TOO hard, but it is still a problem and more work for the DM.

Plus I don't think that "the DM can just change the game to make it more balanced" is a good argument for "it is balanced"

>>43313785
>Kineticist also has trouble with meeting damage from most gish classes, or their utility.
See I'm not sure I buy this. I have build a magus build, and while the magus can do about 20% more damage, he needs to start within 60 feet of the target and ends up with a kinda bad AC and "not the best" saves. I mean I am willing to have my mind changed, but you would probably have to post a build or two to prove your point.
>it can also do other stuff,
it can get fly for minutes a day, it can heal level*2.5 hp over level/2 rounds...and not anything else useful. The kinetistist can fly ALL day and heal as much as it wants to for free.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 12:26:54 No.43313905 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43313934 >>43313980

>>43313785
Pardon my ignorance, but what does WBL mean?

Also yeah, flight isn't really that useful for a kineticist because they already have the capability of keeping themselves out of danger, which is a good thing because they'll be squishier than a con-dump sorc if they want to actually do something resembling relevant damage, at least until they hit level 11 where they just become a weaker more easily walled full-attack turret.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 12:27:20 No.43313913 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43314179

>>43313823
Monhun would be more fun than Witcher I think, bigger monsters to fight and more big weapons to fight them with. A bunch of Witchers fighting something would end the fight way too quickly.

BUILDPOSTER

BUILDPOSTER Tue 27 Oct 2015 12:28:16 No.43313929 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43314179

>>43313823
Pathfinder: the wild hunt. It was a really fun game, but kinda short. People moved away.

It only really works if everyone plays a alchemist, a mutagen fighter, or some kind of "martial+bombs/simple spells/drugs"

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 12:28:26 No.43313934 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43313905
WBL = Wealth by level, or the expected approximate value of magical items and other gear that a character of a given level should have.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 12:28:55 No.43313941 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43313980

>>43313885
>and heal as much as it wants to for free.
No it can't, at least not any more than any other class. Kineticist healing inflicts burn, and that's not a useful feature since you can just get a dirt cheap magical item to do the same shit.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 12:29:59 No.43313954 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43313993

>>43313885
It's balanced if everyone just fucking plays Tier 3 and chills the fuck out.

BUILDPOSTER

BUILDPOSTER Tue 27 Oct 2015 12:31:20 No.43313980 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43314033

>>43313905
Wealth by level. AKA how many boring +whatever magic items you need to have for the math in the game to kinda work(for archers and pouncers only, the math never works for any other martial at all ever)

Also: I'm not sure if you read the kinetistist ability list, but it can do a lot more than just be a turret, and it is really not easily walled off at all. I mean move earth + earthglide is standard abilties for the earth version.

>>43313941
Ahh...thats right. Gather power doesn't work on non-blasts. My bad.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 12:31:34 No.43313982 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43312785
I don't think there is one, unless you're using background skills form Unchained, in which case you could probably take it as Lore(astronomy).

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 12:32:39 No.43313991 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43313885
>The kinetistist can fly ALL day
Yes, this is actually useful.

>and heal as much as it wants to for free
No, I'm going to stop you there. Kinetic Healer is unadulterated shit. It's fine as a once/day "I need healing right fucking now and nothing else is around" but it heals less than a Cure spell at the same level and also deals 2 points of Con damage to whoever you're "healing"

BUILDPOSTER

BUILDPOSTER Tue 27 Oct 2015 12:32:42 No.43313993 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43314212

>>43313954
Except no, a POW class shits all over a bard or a hunter or inquisitor or...hell most of the t3 list.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 12:35:31 No.43314020 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43312993
Then stop playing Pathfinder and use a worthwhile system like Runequest instead.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 12:35:51 No.43314021 Report Delete

Quoted By:

hey what was the pathfinder replacement for warforged called?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 12:36:48 No.43314033 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43314053 >>43314202

>>43313980
It's a matter of picking your poison: energy blasts have crap damage and are easily stopped cold by resistances/immunities/SR, physical blasts are a decent chunk stronger but can't hit anything with more AC than a wet sponge. Also, many of the kineticist's infusions are based around CMB checks using its secondary stat rather than its primary stat, or crippling its damage to hit multiple targets. Kinetic blast damage is unimpressive by itself, splitting it in half just makes it laughable.

That isn't to say the kineticist is literally useless at everything forever, it's just that there's no real reason to use it beyond flavor because it doesn't bring anything to the table. Burn is a needless punishing mechanic on a class that would be well balanced even if it could spam every one of its abilities with impunity.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 12:37:11 No.43314035 Report Delete

Quoted By:

What class multiclasses well with ranger? I'll be taking lvl 6 ranger at the start of next session - OR - the first level of another class.

Any ideas? I'm new to Pathfinder so I have no clue. I think I want to do more damage.

BUILDPOSTER

BUILDPOSTER Tue 27 Oct 2015 12:39:15 No.43314053 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43314097 >>43314133

>>43314033
Agree and agree
I'm not saying its a well put together class. I'm just saying it has less damage than fighter archer, but more versatility, therefore deserves a tier 4 spot.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 12:40:44 No.43314070 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43313885
Its very unlikely that I'm going to go through the effort to build full characters just for damage calcs. It's too much work for some basic math.

Being within 60 ft. of the target is completely fine. That's about the upper end of where most encounters take place anyway. Most take place at 30 ft. or less. "But range" isn't a valid argument in favor of the kineticist, other classes do it better and fights at the extreme end of their range are such outliers that they detract from the comparison, not add to it. it's a +96 to the perception DC to even spot a creature 960 ft. away. That's before you account for anything in between the two of you.

Sauce: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/skills/perception

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 12:41:08 No.43314073 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43313477
You should stop posting about tiers, because you clearly don't understand them.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 12:42:56 No.43314097 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43314118

>>43314053
I think you misunderstand what the tiers are for. Tier 4 is occupied by the classes that can either do one thing really well, or a bunch of things to a reasonable degree.
>Capable of doing only one thing, and not necessarily all that well, or so unfocused that they have trouble mastering anything, and in many types of encounters the character cannot contribute. In some cases, can do one thing very well, but that one thing is very often not needed. Has trouble shining in any encounter unless the rest of the party is weak in that situation and the encounter matches their strengths.

The kineticist is the definition of a T5 class.

BUILDPOSTER

BUILDPOSTER Tue 27 Oct 2015 12:44:51 No.43314118 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43314134 >>43314139

>>43314097
well...if "one thing really well" includes "beat a fight with anything in the monster manual by yourself"...then the kinetistist does fine. Easily just as good if not better than the mutagen fighter archer. Mutagen fighter archer is tier 4....so we could ether bump it down or raise Kinetistist up.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 12:46:36 No.43314133 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43314053
It has way less damage than an archer fighter. Your own build show it doing a measly 70 something damage at level 12, BUT ACTUALLY A WHOLE LOT LESS DPR SINCE YOU DIDN'T FACTOR IN AC, SR, DR OR ELEMENTAL RESISTANCES.

The fact that it can do so at 960 range is worthless since no fight will ever start at more than 200ft, and rarely at more than a hundred ft.

Your own build confirms that kineticist is tier 5 for anyone with eyes to read and brains to comprehend.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 12:46:37 No.43314134 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43314165

>>43314118
>well...if "one thing really well" includes "beat a fight with anything in the monster manual by yourself"...then the kinetistist does fine
>Easily just as good if not better than the mutagen fighter archer

You're kidding right?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 12:46:52 No.43314139 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43314165

>>43314118
Only if that thing in the Monster Manual can't get to the Kineticist. Flight is a good defense, but lots of stuff can fly, and fly faster than the kineticist.

BUILDPOSTER

BUILDPOSTER Tue 27 Oct 2015 12:46:58 No.43314141 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43314165 >>43314168 >>43314171

Upon rereading /pfg/'s posts, I have realized I am retarded and should never post again. Thank you for your patience and please rape my face.

BUILDPOSTER

BUILDPOSTER Tue 27 Oct 2015 12:49:44 No.43314165 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43314177 >>43314282

>>43314134
Super advanced tactics like "casting fog cloud" or "getting behind a wall" are really hard for the mutagen fighter archer do deal with.

>>43314139
fly faster than a 960ft teleport? fly AND beat it in a damage trade off with staggering attacks? I'm not familliar with such a monster.

>>43314141
yep. you sure showed me /pfg/

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 12:49:56 No.43314168 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43314141

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 12:50:08 No.43314171 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43314141
Took you long enough shitbuildposter. But I refuse to rape your face, you're too ugly. I'd rather rape a lich.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 12:50:47 No.43314177 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43314165
You still haven't addressed how you plan on spotting a creature 960 ft. away.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 12:50:49 No.43314179 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43314228

>>43313841
>>43313913
>>43313929
To be honest, something more akin to the FFTA clans would be pretty sweet, where you can choose to accept various missions that may or may not be related to each other. Missions could range from just "kill all the monsters" to simpler things.

Hell, if you want roleplay you could have missions like "Town is terrified because a local Gynosphinx ran into town and is hiding in the tavern celler. When confronted by the party, they find out she got chased out of her home by a pack of Criosphinxes (or something else). You can either just kill her and ignore everything else, attempt to relocate her to get attention away from the village, kill what's chasing her to solve the problem for everyone, or any other manner of solutions."

I also may be tired of trying to do all those retarded "YOU MUST PARTAKE IN THIS GRAND QUEST" or "THERE IS A MASSIVE, OVERARCHING PLOT SOMEWHERE". No, fuck you, just give me my silly weekly fantasy bullshit and a nice world with characters I can give a shit about and I'll be happy, I'm sick of trying to follow some big grand plot that demands hundreds of sessions to resolve anything because we're level 1 dirt scrapers trying to go take down the big bad level 20 necrowizalichcleromancer who wants to summon elder cthulu.

Sorry, where was I going with this again?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 12:52:28 No.43314202 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43314211 >>43314237

>>43314033
Physical blasts would also be subject to DR, right? Just like spells that specify they inflict a physical damage type.

BUILDPOSTER

BUILDPOSTER Tue 27 Oct 2015 12:52:35 No.43314204 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43314237

please leave, impostor.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 12:53:06 No.43314211 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43314202
yes, physical blasts have to interact with DR.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 12:53:10 No.43314212 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43314237

>>43313993
They can't use magic, so this is glaringly false.

They have none of the utility functions, and are outshined in the areas those classes excel.

If we're gauging this purely on the merit of damage output, then yes, they outshine them.

Because that's what martial classes are meant to do.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 12:54:14 No.43314228 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43314179
You were going to run this campaign for us using 25 pt. buy and DSP material?

BUILDPOSTER

BUILDPOSTER Tue 27 Oct 2015 12:54:49 No.43314237 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43314257 >>43314280

>>43314202
once per turn. same as a clustered shot attacker. You can also switch your attacks arround a bit to get arround DR/energy resistance better than a fighter can.

>>43314204
>tripcoders are shit
>impersonates non-tripcoders
hmmm.

>>43314212
even with magic, a lot of them have issues with the "ending combat" department. They are good at other things sure.

BUILDPOSTER !LCW8iB0wEM

BUILDPOSTER !LCW8iB0wEM Tue 27 Oct 2015 12:56:32 No.43314257 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43314237
stop pretending to be me

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 12:57:55 No.43314271 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43314319

>>43313718
Core Wizard already makes the monster manual useless.

If damage is the problem, literally all you have to do is up the enemy's hit points a little more.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 12:58:34 No.43314280 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43314300

>>43314237
>even with magic, a lot of them have issues with the "ending combat" department

Irrelevant. If they're in Tier 3, then an optimized build should be competitive with any of the martials in Path of War in the vast majority of situations, which is the important part.

Non-PoW martials are objective outshined in almost any other capacity.

>they are good at other things sure

Which is the point to different classes in the first place.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 12:58:45 No.43314282 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43314300

>>43314165
If you teleported 960 ft. away from a combat, you lost. You were a coward who ran away.

BUILDPOSTER

BUILDPOSTER Tue 27 Oct 2015 13:00:31 No.43314300 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43314310 >>43314320 >>43314338

>>43314280
>Irrelevant. If they're in Tier 3, then an optimized build should be competitive with any of the martials in Path of War in the vast majority of situations, which is the important part.
demonstrate this? Could someone build a bard that could do this please? I actually want to see it because I keep having problems.

>>43314282
>making up requirements
didn't we already talk about this?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 13:01:29 No.43314310 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43314334

>>43314300
how the fuck is he making up requirements? 960 feet away is out of combat.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 13:02:25 No.43314319 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43314271
This.

Modifying encounters to suit your party is a good chunk of the DM's job.

If people are doing like 50 damage a turn at level 3 then give monsters more health. Not any different from having to adjust monsters because your group is all martial, or all caster, or low/mid/high tier, or due to not having enough/having too many players.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 13:02:29 No.43314320 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43314300
>making up requirements
If you(and only you, not the entire party) teleport away instead of fighting, you've not contributed to the encounter in any meaningful way.

BUILDPOSTER

BUILDPOSTER Tue 27 Oct 2015 13:03:40 No.43314334 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43314344 >>43314373

>>43314310
at twelth level? a different continent isn't even out of combat. scry and teleport takes up to five rounds tops.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 13:04:03 No.43314338 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43314975

>>43314300
To demonstarte "competitive with any of the martials in Path of War in the vast majority of situations" you don't want a build. A build is mostly going to show how things are going to stack up in combat, which isn't the vast majority of situations. You want a list of varied situations with presented solutions the class would be capable of as a standard part of their function.

Wasn't there some list of like fourteen different problems that the guy that first came up with the tier list used, with the definition of the tiers at the time being based on how many of said situations a class could deal with by itself without resorting to buying items or such?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 13:04:40 No.43314344 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43314334
please tell me you aren't retarded. I'm begging you.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 13:05:22 No.43314352 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43313823
>>meanwhile I'm sitting here wondering what a monster-hunter's guild campaign would be like
>>tfw will never have a witcher campaign where every week you had to hunt down and fight the monster(s) of the week

My group had a campaign that literally started as this at first.

We ended up catching a Bunyip, Chupacabra, Sasquatch, a Yeti, and a Mothman.

We used the funds from that to buy a base, named ourselves the Monster Hunter' Guild, and using that as a front for our takeover of the region's seedy underworld to fund our various schemes.(Revenge for our Drow, becoming a Lich for my Bard, etc)

Playing an evil party masquerading as good guys is fun.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 13:07:10 No.43314373 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43314496

>>43314334
Not everything you fight at level twelve is capable of scry'n'fry tactics. I'll give you that some things are, but if every enemy you fight will teleport into the party and catch you off-guard, clearly the DM has it out for you guys.

BUILDPOSTER

BUILDPOSTER Tue 27 Oct 2015 13:17:34 No.43314496 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43314571 >>43314600

>>43314373
My point was that if you are in range of my damage + entangle every round, then i'm not "out of combat". People keep trying to move the goalposts every time I score.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 13:22:57 No.43314571 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43314749

>>43314496
But what other people keep asking you about is the fact that from 300+ feet away, your ability to actually see your target starts getting called into question since you take a -1 penalty on perception checks per 10 feet. If you can't see your target, then all the range in the world doesn't help you. So I think that's why people keep saying you're out of combat at that point.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 13:25:08 No.43314600 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43314496
That's like saying a Wizard who drops a meteor on a city while in another country is in combat. There is no way for you to perceive the enemy, and no way for initiative roll to function, therefore it's not combat

You have scored anything, you've just deluded yourself into thinking so because the idea of being wrong is foreign to you Virt

Anonymous

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Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 13:28:58 No.43314652 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43314697 >>43314700 >>43314784

What would you say to giving the Terbutje/Macuahuitl the Bastard Sword treatment?
As of right now its a strictly worse longsword with the steel variant and the normal one gives you fragile while only saving 10g and 2lbs.
Change it from a
5g 1d6|1d8 19-20/x2 with Fragile to a
1d8|1d10 19-20/x2 making it a 2handed martial weapon with one handed possibilities with exotic weapon training.

15g and 3lbs for the normal 40g and 5lbs for the steel.

Now I was reading about the "It could decapitate a horse." stories and they managed to do it in three strikes here.
http://www.spike.com/video-clips/2nv66c/deadliest-warrior-
(This is the only modern testing I could find.)

I wanted to replicate the tearing wound damage with chunks of obsidian getting stuck causing bleed damage but I think an effect like that might be too powerful?

Mind you I am mostly talking about the Obsidian version of the weapon not the Maori sharktooth variant.

Gareth !klGnb3zBKk

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO Quills.jpg, 101KiB, 391x424

Gareth !klGnb3zBKk Tue 27 Oct 2015 13:31:21 No.43314692 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43314811

>>43310561
I started running Emerald Spire about a month ago. It's such badly-written trash that there is now more of my own content in the adventure than there was original content. Everything from the plot to the STARTING FUCKING TOWN to ENTIRE LEVELS OF THE DUNGEON had to be replaced. The "negotiation" levels suffer from being A. five-minute passthroughs with no significance (4), B. Kill-on-sight genocides where all sides lack a common language and the people you're trying to talk to are fucking demon worshipers anyway (7 & 8) and C. FREAKING INCOMPETENT PLANAR FACTION CHARACTERIZATION (15).

Remove yourself from this evil and never darken your mind with it. Flee to greener pastures, anone. Flee and never look back.

Afternoon /pfg/.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 13:31:29 No.43314697 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43314798

>>43314652
>something something obsidion chitted a THOUSAND times
>something something years to make
>something something involving knights
>something something spent 500 pesos on an authentic one
>something something cut through steel slabs

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 13:31:44 No.43314700 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43314798

>>43314652

You mean like the Great Terbujte?

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/weapons/weapon-descriptions/terbutje-great

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 13:33:06 No.43314725 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43313823
I'm currently a GM, and once my party is off the Island they're at now, I'll be making them follow Supernatural or Witcher monster of the week for a while, just to see how it works out.

BUILDPOSTER

BUILDPOSTER Tue 27 Oct 2015 13:34:35 No.43314749 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43314825 >>43314901

>>43314571
>perception rules
please don't use those. they are silly.

At this point i'm not sure what you want. The kinetistis, when built reasnably well, ends encounters just as well as the archer mutagen fighter or zen archer. These requriements for being tier 4 are more nebulous by the post.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 13:36:52 No.43314784 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43314898

>>43314652
>Why is my primitive, obsolete stone-and-wood version of a weapon not as good?

It's a strictly worse longsword because that's fine and makes sense. Why the fuck would you even make it out of steel?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 13:37:41 No.43314798 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43314818

>>43314700
Didn't notice that but yes that is pretty much the weapon I had in mind.

>>43314697
I was considering taking the copypasta and just making an aztecaboo version but ended up trying to make a serious thought.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 13:38:23 No.43314811 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43314834 >>43315087

>>43314692
Gareth - weigh in here as impartially as you can.

Should a PoW martial deliberately hamper themselves to make the rest of the party feel better because PoW is (allegedly) underpowered despite core casters being such bullshit that the PoW martial is positively balanced by comparison?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 13:38:46 No.43314818 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43314798
Go to 1d4chan, they already have an aztecaboo version

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 13:39:26 No.43314825 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43314845 >>43314868

>>43314749
>please don't use those. they are silly.
You're silly, and that's a much nicer comeback than the other folks here are going to give you. Those rules are a normal part of the game and they get used in my games. I don't recall hearing about people choosing not to use them in their games, either.

Anyway, I don't want anything, I'm not involved in this debate. I'm just a third party who has been trying to clarify what people are saying. If anything, I'd like to move on to something else. Even trumpet memes and CHARMED MOTHERFUCKING LIFE would be a nice change of pace at this point.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 13:40:00 No.43314834 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43314855

>>43314811
>core casters being such bullshit that the PoW martial is positively balanced by comparison
They are not? Wizard is T1, most of PoW is T4, most of PoWEx is T3.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 13:40:59 No.43314845 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43314870 >>43314877 >>43314900

>>43314825
>Charmed life

What even is charmed life? I've seen the term tossed around but I have no idea what to think of it. From the way it's talked about, I can only assume it's some powerful caster ability.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 13:41:40 No.43314855 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43314911

>>43314834
>PoWEx is T3

So what's a good balance point?

Tier 3 IS balanced. That's supposed to be the baseline for game balance in general, right?

BUILDPOSTER

BUILDPOSTER Tue 27 Oct 2015 13:42:44 No.43314868 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43314980 >>43315021

>>43314825
I might actually give up, apart from posting the occasional "Reminder that.." post.

/pfg/ loves their memes, and no amount of fact posting, build posting, or discussion will change their mind. A fighter that is countered by wands of fog cloud is TOTALLY tier 4 but a 1000ft range attacking, teleporting, perma-flying, staggering on every-attacking kinetistist is just "literlaly unarchetyped monk lol".

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 13:42:53 No.43314870 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43314912

>>43314845
It's only the most powerful ability that anyone that ISN'T a caster gets. It's the Swashbuckler's claim-to-fame that lets them pretty much be immune to anything that requires a save. I might be overselling it slightly.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 13:43:25 No.43314877 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43314845
It's the shitty ability that paizo uses to justify why the saves of the Swashbuckler are so shitty. Also got used by stupid memeposters as bait by saying charmed life is so powerfull it makes the Swash less shitty, which it doesn't.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 13:44:24 No.43314898 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43314784
But it isn't strictly worse, its a different weapon. The problem is pathfinder doesn't differentiate between cutting and tearing wounds so the bleeding/crippling effect which was the point of it doesn't get counted mechanically. I wouldn't mind trading off worse stats for a crippling or bleed effect but weapons don't have effects like that.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 13:44:41 No.43314900 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43314845

Swashbucklers are the ultimate power in pathfinder, everyone knows that

Check this shit out. Charmed Life. CHARMED. FUCKING. LIFE. it's basically a get out of jail free coupon, except instead of jail it's GET OUT OF FUCKING ANYTHING YOU WANT coupon

You just pop that baby and BAM. SHIT EXPLODES YO. Angry monster about to kill the party? CHARMED LIFE BABY, NOT ANYMORE. Meteor about to crash into the city? CHARMED LIFE, SORRY. Ancient god of evil about to awaken and kill all of the gods of good? CHARMED LIFE.

What gets even better is you can do this practically ALL DAY LONG. JESUS WHAT WAS PAIZO THINKING.

And if that wasn't enough, they get all kinds of other crazy shit. For example, at level 11 their weapons CANNOT BE DISARMED. THEY CANNOT BE DISARMED AT ALL. THEY LITERALLY CANNOT BE DISCONNECTED FROM WHERE THEIR WEAPON IS, BODY, SOUL, AND MIND. THEY EXIST AS A SPIRITUAL CONNECTION THAT EXTENDS BEYOND THE PLANES TO ALL FACETS OF THE WEAPON'S ESSENCE SO THAT THEY ARE COMPLETELY IN TUNE WITH IT AT ALL LEVELS ITS CALLED SUBTLE BLADE BUT SHIT BE CRAZIER THAN MORROWIND TRUST ME I'VE DONE THE MATH

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 13:44:42 No.43314901 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43314924

>>43314749
>>perception rules
>please don't use those. they are silly.

what part of "you don't have telescopic super sight" is silly.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 13:45:15 No.43314911 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43314926 >>43315287

>>43314855
>So what's a good balance point?
The point that all the party members are built around? I doubt T6 or T5 campaigns should be run with PF, but all other tiers are good as long as god wizards are not in the same party with monks and rogues.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 13:45:18 No.43314912 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43314943 >>43314947

>>43314870
>At 2nd level, the swashbuckler gains a knack for getting out of trouble. Three times per day as an immediate action before attempting a saving throw, she can add her Charisma modifier to the result of the save. She must choose to do this before the roll is made. At 6th level and every 4 levels thereafter, the number of times she can do this per day increases by one (to a maximum of 7 times per day at 18th level).

That's... Okay, I guess. I might be biased, since I'm mostly a 3.5 player and am used to the Diamond Mind save replacers... It's decent, but... Why not just use paladin or something for Cha to saves at all times.

BUILDPOSTER

BUILDPOSTER Tue 27 Oct 2015 13:46:13 No.43314924 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43314967 >>43314980 >>43315387

>>43314901
>ignore main arguments, focus on pointless minutia
You know you could just admit that you were wrong.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 13:46:18 No.43314926 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43314947 >>43315042 >>43315287

>>43314911
>Situational balance is good

Yeah, no. Fuck that.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 13:47:15 No.43314943 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43314912

One time I was DMing a game, and this player swaggered in with a Swashbuckler character. He was such an arrogant jerk and obviously came from cancerous /tg/; he was always ranting about how terrible and awful spellcasters were

Well the party wizard tried to buff him once and he was like NO THANKS I'VE GOT CHARMED LIFE. And the party cleric tried to heal him and he was like CHARMED LIFE BITCH. And he proceeded to demolish every encounter and made the spellcasters in the party feel worthless and humilated

Well, wizard is my favorite class so I said NO FUCKING WAY and banned his ass from my game. Shit was so cash.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 13:47:23 No.43314946 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43314962 >>43314974 >>43314986

Any other GM's here have some tips for a beginner?

BUILDPOSTER

BUILDPOSTER Tue 27 Oct 2015 13:47:24 No.43314947 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43314912
because the swashbuckler is a shit class.

>>43314926
agreed

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 13:47:29 No.43314948 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43314962

Got the Warrior Archer to about 70.2 DPR, using half of Heroic WBL (assumption being the rest is utility or party stuff) and without Haste. Had clustered shots, so DR isn't really too big an issue, and zero of that was energy. I can probably push it higher, but even getting into the ballpark is enough here.

Definite T5, though, he wasn't doing much else. One open feat, for what it's worth.

BUILDPOSTER

BUILDPOSTER Tue 27 Oct 2015 13:48:49 No.43314962 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43315030 >>43315240

>>43314946
beginner player or beginner DM?

>>43314948
post the build? how does it compare to >>43313523

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 13:49:06 No.43314967 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43315031

>>43314924
>ignore the actual rules, focus on the raw numbers

You could just admit that you're wrong.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 13:50:05 No.43314974 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43315030

>>43314946
Yeah, don't GM.

Seriously, don't GM

It'll ruin games for you.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 13:50:09 No.43314975 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43314338
I remember a list of scenarios in 3.5 designed for running level 5 homebrewed characters through to see if they were overpowered. If I could find the list it would probably work for pathfinder.

I had a homebrewed level 7 martial I put through it that failed the majority of them, that was sad.

I also had to fight a manticore and actually simulated that, with the end result being me grappling it as it tried to flee after sustaining a taking a few big hits, before dropping me a hundred feet.

I'm a dick GM I guess.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 13:50:50 No.43314980 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43314868
Personally, part of the reason I didn't toss anything into the debate about the kineticist in these last couple threads, aside from not caring enough to, is because honestly it doesn't actually matter. Whether the kineticist is T5 or T4 isn't a big deal in the end, especially since most groups I've played in either haven't heard about tiers or recoil at the mention of them. People that want to play a kineticist will play one and then if they're happy with how it works, good for them, if they aren't then they'll move on. Whether it's T5 or T4, /pfg/ will still warn people against playing it because it definitely does have some problems that other ways of being "the elementally-themed guy" don't have to deal with.

Besides, in the end, the sweet-spot is still T3.

>>43314924
Come on, you were just saying that you were done with the main argument and tired of wasting your time.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 13:51:07 No.43314986 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43315030

>>43314946
>Any other GM's here have some tips for a beginner?
Don't play Pathfinder. Definitely don't GM Pathfinder as a beginner.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 13:52:59 No.43315021 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43315122

>>43314868
>I might actually give up, except I really love to shitpost and will continue to do so.
FTFY

Also Tiers are about versatility and solving problems, not just combat power you retard.
Normal Fighters are tier 5 because they can only do damage well, and not even that well, whereas the Mutation Fighter gets Discoveries and his Mutagen make him into a lite Barbarian.

For Kineticist, all you get is subpar damage and effects that can be better emulated with use of UMD, and the only way you get into Tier 4 is disregarding most of the class and picking only a singular play style and building only to that, meaning you've only got one shtick, and you have to punch yourself in the face to be good at it, aside from being a flight scout/harrier.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 13:53:33 No.43315030 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43314962
Well, both.
>>43314974
I've already done around eight or seven sessions though. Still enjoying the game.
>>43314986
Well, too late for that!

BUILDPOSTER

BUILDPOSTER Tue 27 Oct 2015 13:53:33 No.43315031 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43315175

>>43314967
Your argument is basically "you aren't tier 4, even though you can kill anything you face of appropriate CR easily by yourself, because if you actually use your ability to its fullest extent instead of you know...intelligently.... you might not see your target.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 13:54:24 No.43315042 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43315070

>>43314926
Well, it's the only kind of balance you are going to get in Pathfinder.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 13:55:55 No.43315070 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43315042
The obvious solution is to run Tier 3 only, use Tier 3 as the game balance baseline, and call it good.

Gareth !klGnb3zBKk

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO The beat.jpg, 181KiB, 768x1600

Gareth !klGnb3zBKk Tue 27 Oct 2015 13:57:04 No.43315087 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43315155 >>43315197

>>43314811
I feel as though mistakes were made during Path of War's design that we've come to recognize. Really, it's a matter of what you mean by 'should'. For instance, my group is really low-op; the two players I GM for are literally playing their first martial & first psion (nomad, specifically), respectively. It's very easy for them to see the way the Zwei's zone control forces the enemies to change their behavior, but it's a little harder to appreciate the effects of no-PP Telepathic Lashes locking down threats.

I personally see nothing wrong with playing sub-optimally /if it is not hindering the group/. If you're playing through, say, Emerald Spire with no adjustments, you probably don't need to be doing the boost-and-full-attack thing that we've found so bothersome. Conversely, in a higher op group, laying out that kind of damage might be vital. Damage, in particular, runs into this point where you've Officially Dealt Enough and doing more is just rubbing shit in. That point might still be T4, but that's not a reason to crank the numbers further.

Additionally, "the wizard is shit design" is not a reason for us to engage in shit design. 's why we referenced back to the bestiary & existing T3 classes for our balance points and why we're working on cranking the low-level damage down a bit. Yes, T1 classes are bullshit and we can't get rid of them. No, that doesn't excuse using them as a metric.

I get this feeling like I haven't quite answered the question, possibly because I'm still only on my first level of coffee, so please, feel free to ask follow-ups or more specific questions 'cause I'd like to be able to discuss this. I'm not trying to weasel, I'm just still shaking the sleep off.

BUILDPOSTER

BUILDPOSTER Tue 27 Oct 2015 13:59:33 No.43315122 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43315208 >>43315428

>>43315021
As far as I can tell the tiers are a quantum state of "whatever my feefees tell me they are".

Fighter than can 1-round kill anything in the monster manual? tier 5

Fighter that can 1-round kill anything in the monster manual, can fly for minutes a day, and give itself a shitty heal? tier 4

Adept with literally 0 combat power and a shit-tastic spell list? tier 4

Kinetistist that can fly 24/7, teleport, deliver entangled or staggerd conditions on every attack, deal piercing/slashing damage against normal ac, or cold damage against touch ac, have great AC and decent saves, with over 100 usable HP? Tier 5 lol.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 13:59:38 No.43315123 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43313823
I've been wanting to do a supernatural hunting campaign for awhile.

I have a city of undead in my setting that hoard knowledge, so the idea was the players would be hired by them to escort a caravan designed to contain whatever they were hunting to a choice of three locations per monster where agents had information on the target, and then the players would attempt to subdue the monster and bag it, then have to escort it all the way home.

Stuff like vampires, wendigos, gorgons, werewolves, maybe a demon or two, and my personal favorite the kumiho.

Then there's all that fun stuff where you would have to find a way to feed a vampire or kumiho without letting it escape, and keep an eye on all of your companions to make sure they are not being subtly mindfucked by them.

Afterwards I'd write up some information SCP style from the perspective of the organization experimenting and testing with the captured creature, basically solidifying what I want the creature to be able to be capable of after I wing it through a short mission.

BUILDPOSTER

BUILDPOSTER Tue 27 Oct 2015 14:01:14 No.43315155 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43315210 >>43315280 >>43315474 >>43315522 >>43315600

>>43315087
>answers tough questions
>admits mistakes
I do think you kinda fucked up the low level play, but damn I gotta respect you as a developer. You got balls.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 14:02:43 No.43315175 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43315208 >>43315381 >>43315584

>>43315031
Because you retarded cunt, you can't attack or teleport from a 1000ft since you can't see from a 1000ft, and your stupid sttager trick costs burn so you can only use it a couple times a day. Your shitty pathetic build only proves that kineticist is tier five. The only thing it can do is fly. Woop de fucking doo, an entire class as useful as a potion of Fly.

/pfg/ I vote we start ignoring shitbuildposter and his complete lack of rules comprehension and balance understanding. It's a stupid troll.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 14:04:13 No.43315197 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43315600

>>43315087

I'm not a fan of PoW or /pfg/'s constant wanking over it but I think you're a cool guy Gareth

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 14:04:50 No.43315208 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43315223 >>43315252

>>43315122
Combat isn't the only thing in the game. Being able to kill things in ideal conditions can only solve so many problems. Even a little bit of versatility is all you need to jump the bridge from T5 to T4. >>43315175 is an idiot; Kineticist is a Tier 4. It's still an awful class but it can be made to work.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 14:04:53 No.43315210 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43315584 >>43315600

>>43315155
He does that EVERY FUCKIG THREAD THAT YOU BITCH IN YOU FUCKING BITCHLORD!

AND YOULL BE BACK NEXT THREAD TO BITCH ABOUT THE SAME STUFF AGAIN YOU FUCKING FAGGOT!

Also everything your Kineticist can do a Fighter of 2 levels lower can do with a potion and some UMD you retard. When you you get that through your thick head?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 14:05:33 No.43315223 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43315312

>>43315208
Just like the Adept?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 14:06:45 No.43315240 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43314962
Human Warrior, level 12
Relevant stats after items: 22 Dex, 26 Strength (con was 12)

Feats: PBS, Weapon Focus, Precise, Rapid, Multishot, Clustered

Weapon was +3 Adaptive Composite Longbow
Other equipment includes Bracers of Falcon's Aim and Wings of Flying

+28 attack first, -2 for rapid is 26 against AC 27 for 95%, effectively 3 attacks (Multi and Rapid). Followed by 22 and 17

1d8+12 damage (avg 16.5), 19-20/x3

This assumes a full attack from within 30 feet (and I miscalculated, forget to extend the threat range, damage is actually 85.8 expected DPR)

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 14:07:39 No.43315252 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43315208
Both tier lists on the pastebin say one of us is wrong. Hint: it's the ugly idiot you see when you look in the mirror.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 14:09:44 No.43315280 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43315155
Why don't you take your build to Stackex or one of the other sites that deal expressly in pulling classes apart mechanically?
/tg/ isn't the one saying the kineticist is shit, EVERYONE is, so if you have proof otherwise, why not present it to the sites that deal with optimizing and class strategems, which is NOT /tg/?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 14:10:01 No.43315287 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43314926
>>43314911
Situational balance is the best example of balance you can get in Pathfinder.

If everyone in the party wants to play, in order, a Wizard a Druid a Cleric and a Shaman, then there's no real problems with inner-party balance because EVERYONE is overpowered; as a GM, your job is to provide them a challenge, so you should throw plenty of semi-to-well-optimized casters at them.

Conversely, if the party consists of a Monk, Rogue, Gunslinger, and Magus, then everyone is about as weak as everyone else, and your job as the GM is to not completely murder them and provide them a fair challenge.

Balance issues arise when A) the party isn't anywhere near the same Tier as one another, and B) the GM doesn't account for party strength differences.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 14:11:57 No.43315312 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43315405 >>43315584

>>43315223

Personally, I don't think the PF Adept is tier 4. I think it's tier 5.

In 3.5, it was undeniably tier 4; it got access to a cleric domain, had powerful spells at every level they got, and good lategame reach thanks to a couple later ones. At the same time, it had more useful options because 3.5 had a /lot/ more options for character customization. Pathfinder nerfed many of those spells and doesn't have the same sorts of buildpath options (PrCs and feats, specifically).

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 14:12:43 No.43315326 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43315357 >>43315408 >>43315492

You all need to remember tiers are merely a measure of problem-solving potential. Flight solves few problems except "he's not close enough to sword" and "we need to cross this canyon", the latter only if you can share it or lift your pals.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 14:14:58 No.43315357 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43315399

>>43315326
>Flight solves few problems except "he's not close enough to sword" and "we need to cross this canyon"
It solves much more important "I'M too close to be sworded to my liking".

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 14:16:42 No.43315381 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43315469

>>43315175
>and your stupid sttager trick costs burn so you can only use it a couple times a day
This is a perfect example, because you don't know the rules at all.

I can do that. I can do that for 0 burn at 240 feet every round of the day. If you knew the rules you would know that, but you don't.

So here is what I want you to do. Go read the kinetistist page, learn for yourself how that I can do that, and then come back here and post "I was wrong, you have changed my mind".

But you won't do that, because you can't, because you are literally incapable of changing your mind or admitting you were wrong.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 14:16:45 No.43315382 Report Delete

Quoted By:

What is the easiest way to become immune to being staggered?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 14:16:58 No.43315387 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43314924
>Whether I can even see the enemy I'm trying to kill isn't worth discussing when the discussion is how well I can the enemy

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 14:17:55 No.43315399 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43315447

>>43315357
You'd think, but other creatures can attain flight, so it's more a matter of fly SPEEDS.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 14:18:12 No.43315405 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43315449

>>43315312
3.5 adept only got a domain in Eberron.

BUILDPOSTER

BUILDPOSTER Tue 27 Oct 2015 14:18:26 No.43315408 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43315326
Fighters also solve then "This thing is alive" problem. One that is quite common in pathfinder. Only the archer version solves it with any ability though.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 1375753363989.jpg, 121KiB, 1006x631

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 14:19:51 No.43315428 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43315584

>>43315122
You'd be completely wrong in your understanding as to what a Tier means then.
Tier 5 means "you can only do one thing, and you're kinda okay" OR "you try too hard to do multiple things, and all of them suck". An Archery-focused vanilla Fighter is only ever going to be able to kill things with his bow using direct damage, he's easily stopped by mundane (let alone magical) interference, and without his bow he's gimped. Similarly, even a well-optimized Kineticist can't do the same amount of damage as the Barbarian (who is Tier 4, below), doesn't have the same versatility as the Adept (also Tier 4), and is limited by his "at-will" attacks way more than the Warlock (who was considered a Tier 4 upon release).
Tier 4 means "can do one thing well but often feels useless otherwise" OR "can do multiple things okay, about as well as the Tier 5 could do a single thing". The Mutation Warrior Fighter increases a tier because he can deal more damage than a normal fighter (by raising his STR or DEX with a mutagen), and can use utility effects when they need to be used without cutting into his money and WBL; flight for only a couple of minutes isn't really limited when you only NEED it for a couple of minutes every day, and Fast Healing as a panic button when something knocks you out is a life-saver that saves uses of healing for other people.

Do you understand how Tiers work now? It's not based on the 'build', it's based on POTENTIAL. Kineticists just don't have the potential.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 14:21:02 No.43315447 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43315399
Also teleportation effects. The fact that pretty much every evil outsider has some form of teleportation effect that completely negates the build's ability to do anything other than run away.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 14:21:14 No.43315449 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43315405

And setting-specific materials are often used outside of that setting. Even without it though, their spell list is fairly good. The loss of polymorph as a strong strategy for being useful into high levels is rough though.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 14:22:28 No.43315469 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43315912

>>43315381
I'm not him, but I'll admit that I didn't read kineticist. I tried. It's written like shit.
I did read the first gitp handbook though. It was much better at explaining how kineticist works, which I guess says something about it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 14:22:55 No.43315474 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43315489 >>43315514 >>43315522

>>43315155
You realize that Gareth, Sslarn, Psybomb, and Elric do this EVERY

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 14:23:55 No.43315489 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43315474
Sniped from 960ft away!

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 14:24:24 No.43315492 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43315326

Keep in mind it also completely invalidates climb, rough terrain, and anyone/anything that can only hit things at a shorter range than you can. And even if that fighter has a backup bow it's not like he has as much training or enchantments to help it as he does his greatsword.

How useful it is also depends on how open the area you are in is though. Being able to fly in a dungeon that's only 10 feet tall wouldn't help too much.

There's some fancy stuff you could do with it too though like flying up to the top of a tower and breaking a window to get in, fly from ship to ship in combat, drop bombs from the air, or just escape from any situation that does not involve a ceiling.

PsyBomb !/5pRkWcRxk

PsyBomb !/5pRkWcRxk Tue 27 Oct 2015 14:25:58 No.43315514 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43315584 >>43315592

>>43315474
I think he got it the first two times, anon. Not a fan of the tone, but as stated by Gareth we're working on it.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 1379128330644.png, 66KiB, 326x256

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 14:26:15 No.43315522 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43315584 >>43315597 >>43315600

>>43315474
>>43315155
Fucking pressed send too fast.

You realize that Gareth, Sslarn, Psybomb, and Elric do this EVERY SINGLE THREAD, right? Or are you too busy shitposting and memeing to read the actual thread and see that the guys at DSP have, for several weeks now, been in /pfg/ listening to our complaints, taking our feedback, and generally being good developers?

Oh wait, of course not, why would Virt ever actually read a thread and not just autofellate himself on his smug superiority, I forgot. Go take your build to a site that does this shit for a living, see how you compare to it, listen to what THEY have to say, and then go fall in a ditch and die.

Yes, I mad. I very mad. I eternally mad.

BUILDPOSTER

BUILDPOSTER Tue 27 Oct 2015 14:30:44 No.43315584 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43317948

>>43315312
I agree. After looking at it's spell list some more it is absolute shit.

Tier list changes:
>Adept to tier 5
>Mutagen fighter back to tier 5 like the normal fighter
>Archer fighter to tier 4
>kinetistist(air or earth) to tier 4

>>43315428
>An Archery-focused vanilla Fighter is only ever going to be able to kill things with his bow using direct damage, he's easily stopped by mundane (let alone magical) interference, and without his bow he's gimped.
Mutagen fighter is no different. +4 to one attribute , fly minutes a day, and irrelevant healing shouldn't be enough to change a tier. It that were the case a wand of CLW and heroism and a potion of fly make any fighter tier 4
>Similarly, even a well-optimized Kineticist can't do the same amount of damage as the Barbarian (who is Tier 4, below)
nothing can do the damage that that barbarian can, and that barbarian needs someone to help him fly, AND can only do that damage in a 140 radius while burning charges from his boots of haste. A "tier 5" archer fighter does similar levels of damage at range, albeit with worse saves. No fly needed.
>Fast Healing as a panic button
that shitty healing won't save you from anything at all. A familliar with a wand of CLW has equal healing power.
>Do you understand how Tiers work now? It's not based on the 'build', it's based on POTENTIAL. Kineticists just don't have the potential.
Define potential then, because if I build a fighter to do X damage, then I think the class has the potential to do X damage.

>>43315514
Yea I am a bit abrasive. I blame people like >>43315175 and >>43315210. How you deal with these people and stay sane is a mystery to me.

>>43315522
>You realize that Gareth, Sslarn, Psybomb, and Elric do this EVERY SINGLE ... and generally being good developers?
I never said they didn't do any of this. I think they are great developers. Everyone makes mistakes, and they own up to the ones they make and are working to fix them. That is way more than most people.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 14:31:29 No.43315592 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43315627 >>43315746

>>43315514
I still don't think the alleged 'damage problem' really needed addressing. There's really nothing else for a martial to do in a fight. Of COURSE they should be good at damage output.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 14:31:59 No.43315597 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43315685

>>43315522
>You realize that Gareth, Sslarn, Psybomb, and Elric do this EVERY SINGLE THREAD, right? Or are you too busy shitposting and memeing to read the actual thread and see that the guys at DSP have, for several weeks now, been in /pfg/ listening to our complaints, taking our feedback, and generally being good developers?

Shit, really?

I looked over all the DSP stuff over the last week and decided it was all cool as fuck and have been jizzing all over my friends about it, then I came here to discuss PF in general and saw DSP being talked about everywhere, AND on top of that multiple devs watch the threads to improve shit?

Fuck it just keeps getting better. Consider me a fanboy faggot.

Gareth !klGnb3zBKk

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO Customer Service B.jpg, 20KiB, 225x225

Gareth !klGnb3zBKk Tue 27 Oct 2015 14:32:16 No.43315600 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43315614 >>43315615 >>43315657 >>43315692 >>43315694

>>43315155
>>43315197
I appreciate it. The way I figure it is if I'm askin' for folks' money (and I totally fucking am), I should give them all due support & transparency, y'know? I'm selling a product with the expectation included that it'll function. When something doesn't, or lacks clarity, that's on me to help you with, not on you.

>>43315210
>>43315522
Calmate, calmate. We're all friends here, aye?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 14:33:22 No.43315614 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43315600
Virt is no one's friend, he has no friends.

Go through the archives and behold the cancer that is virt

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 14:33:40 No.43315615 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43315639

>>43315600
>I appreciate it. The way I figure it is if I'm askin' for folks' money (and I totally fucking am), I should give them all due support & transparency, y'know?
Why are you against capitalism?

BUILDPOSTER

BUILDPOSTER Tue 27 Oct 2015 14:34:08 No.43315627 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43315723

>>43315592
Missing the point.

non POW martials: literally nothing but HP damage, but tons of it.

POW martial: More than HP damage, but still tons of hp damage, and possibly even more that there should be.

Ideal martials: Much more than HP damage, but still moderate-high HP damage when needed.

Gareth !klGnb3zBKk

Gareth !klGnb3zBKk Tue 27 Oct 2015 14:34:43 No.43315639 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43315690

>>43315615
I grew up below the poverty line in Freedomistan.

BUILDPOSTER

BUILDPOSTER Tue 27 Oct 2015 14:35:35 No.43315657 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43315600
>Calmate, calmate. We're all friends here, aye?
Just ignore them. The first guy is just bad because I posted FACTS, and the second guy is reasonable, but my excessive ass-hole-ness pissed him off.

Elric !iXwZjp.UKU

Elric !iXwZjp.UKU Tue 27 Oct 2015 14:36:44 No.43315685 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43315597
We're almost always here. Watching. Waiting to strike.

BUILDPOSTER

BUILDPOSTER Tue 27 Oct 2015 14:36:58 No.43315690 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43315639
Why didn't you just inherent more money? Poor people have no one to blame for their own bad decisions like being born without rich parents.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 14:37:02 No.43315692 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43316022

>>43315600
>I appreciate it. The way I figure it is if I'm askin' for folks' money (and I totally fucking am), I should give them all due support & transparency, y'know? I'm selling a product with the expectation included that it'll function. When something doesn't, or lacks clarity, that's on me to help you with, not on you.

Alright motherfucker that's it, I am naming a very prominent paladin NPC in my setting after you.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 14:37:08 No.43315694 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43315784 >>43316022

>>43315600
>We're all friends here, aye?
>friends
>on /tg/

We might be better than /v/ or /b/, but we're still an anonymous imageboard; people that act like morons and shitstains get treated like that. If this really is just Virt with a different trip, he deserves no mercy and no friendship.

That being said, if a Paizo developer came here, with a trip, and listened to people for even a moment, I'd respect them because they're sticking their neck out. I dislike Paizo because they only listen to their echochamber, and even then they ignore large chunks of it. DSP has proven that they listen to multiple sources across the internet (your own forums, here on /pfg/, GitP, etc.) and take it to heart, which gives the general populace respect for the company; if you guys act like dicks though, we'll call you out for it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 14:38:23 No.43315723 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43315761 >>43315784 >>43316022

>>43315627
>Missing the point.

No, YOU'RE missing the point.

What else can PoW martials do besides HP damage and some minor debuffs on occasion?

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 1399083675440.png, 277KiB, 639x582

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 14:39:28 No.43315745 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43315793 >>43315819

Hey /pfg/, how would you handle a playable race without arms? Would you even allow it, or would it be too much of a headache? I'm thinking of giving these guys something like a racial at-will Mage Hand so they can manipulate objects, but it seems like most weapons would be beyond their ability to use, unless it's something like a spiked helmet (so they'll probably get that as a racial weapon familiarity). Otherwise, it seems like they'd be lean towards magic classes.

Aberration (3 RP)
Medium-sized (0 RP)
Slow-Speed (-1 RP)
+2 CON, +2 WIS, -2 DEX (0 RP)
Racial Traits:
Hardy (3 RP)
Sociable (1 RP)
Static Bonus Feat: Skill Focus Sense Motive (2 RP)
At-Will SLA: Mage Hand (2 RP)
Deep Magic (3 RP)
Weapon Familiarity (1 RP)
No Arms (-4 RP)

Total RP works out to 10, and ignoring the fact that technically they shouldn't be able to take an at-will SLA, I don't think it bends any of the rules. Do you guys think I've undervalued how much RP they should be refunded for not having arms, assuming that they can use their Mage hand to retrieve items like normal? It's the equal-but-opposite cost of having an extra arm, but I'm thinking that there are more disadvantages to having no arms than there are advantages to extra arms.

Also, just for reference, I don't really expect my players to choose to play as this race, but because they're present in my setting I'm trying to stat them up anyway.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 14:39:29 No.43315746 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43315784

>>43315592
>There's really nothing else for a martial to do in a fight.
You can build initiator using only counters and mobility/utility boosts and stances and still not be as crippled as a wizard with random spellbook.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 14:40:18 No.43315761 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43315784 >>43315788

>>43315723
Depending on the disciples used: flight, teleportation, becoming incorporeal, actual tanking, healing, party-wide buffs.

BUILDPOSTER

BUILDPOSTER Tue 27 Oct 2015 14:42:31 No.43315784 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43315694
>If this really is just Virt with a different trip, he deserves no mercy and no friendship.
You probably won't believe me, but I'm not him. I didn't even know who that was until three people explained it to me ~3 thread ago. possible further proof: vit apparently thinks that pathfinder is balanced, while I don't think it even functions past level 12, and almost 1/4th of the classes are completely useless.

>>43315723
Non-autistic skill points. Mobility powers. Some healing. Not-minor debuffs, non-minor self buffs, Aiding other allies in ways that actually matter, Hell they have the same utility that a bard has before the bard gets third level spells.

and >>43315761 and >>43315746 and...

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 14:42:41 No.43315788 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43315761
>flight
Personal flight at most.

>becoming incorporeal
For the prevention of incoming damage, at most.

>teleportation
Isn't that only short-ranged and therefore pretty much worthless except for moving around?

>Actual tanking
Got me there.

>Healing
Nowhere near as good as a dedicated healer.

>party-wide buffs
Which are mainly meant to benefit other martials. Valid point, but only to a certain extent.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 14:42:46 No.43315793 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43315845 >>43316004

>>43315745
>Otherwise, it seems like they'd be lean towards magic classes.
Somatic components.

Psionicists and Psychic Armory don't give a fuck though.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 14:44:45 No.43315819 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43315845

>>43315745
Even magic classes need hands for somatic components(and for holding material components) unless you're solely relying on psychic casters. To be honest, I probably wouldn't allow them as a playable race - having flying crystals or what have you as NPCs is fine, but unless it's a monster campaign or the like, all PCs should probably be more or less humanoid in shape.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 14:46:54 No.43315845 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43315876

>>43315793
>>43315819
Ah, fuck, you're right, totally forgot about that part. Hm... Well, since I was thinking that I'm underestimating how much RP they should get back for No Arms, maybe I'll increase the amount they get from that and then dump into a custom sort of "your spells never require somatic components" ability. Never needing somatic components is kind of a handy benefit too, means they can cast just fine when grappled and such.

Anyway, like I said I'm really only statting them because I feel I should if I'm including them as a civilized and somewhat wide-spread race in my setting. I doubt any of my players will try to play as one, but I'll be warning them if they do.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 14:47:41 No.43315853 Report Delete

Quoted By:

Looks like the time has come for me to try out the fabled kitsune enchanter.

Anyone here have some art of fox boys?

BUILDPOSTER

BUILDPOSTER Tue 27 Oct 2015 14:49:11 No.43315876 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43315916 >>43316004

>>43315845
extra feat, eschew components. easy.

BUILDPOSTER

BUILDPOSTER Tue 27 Oct 2015 14:52:00 No.43315912 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43315469
it is possibly the most poorly laid out or written class in the game.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 14:52:16 No.43315916 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43316004

>>43315876
That only works for MATERIAL components, not somatic ones. The only feat that lets you ignore somatic components is Still Spell, which is metamagic.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 14:57:15 No.43316004 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43316015 >>43316136

>>43315793
>>43315876
>>43315916
So I think I'm gonna just go ahead and upgrade it from "warn players that look like they want to play one" to "discourage them from playing one". Although, I guess you guys are right, and that point, why bother statting them up or allowing them as a PC race, if I'm just going to tell anyone that wants to play one that they shouldn't?

I'll just move onto some of the other, less abnormal races of the setting.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 14:58:01 No.43316015 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43316075

>>43316004
A legless race perhaps?

Gareth !klGnb3zBKk

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO Countess Felis von Orphanpuncher.png, 28KiB, 300x264

Gareth !klGnb3zBKk Tue 27 Oct 2015 14:58:38 No.43316022 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43316163

>>43315692
You can't see it but I'm blushing like senpai noticed me.

>>43315694
Please, feel free to. Sometimes I need a good slapping.

>>43315723
Well, which PoW martials are we talking, here? 'Cause, f'rinstance, Cursed Razor doesn't have minor debuffs, it has severe debuffs at low levels that eventually get interspersed with /death sentences/ (slow, paralysis, etc).

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 15:01:49 No.43316075 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43316015
Nah, all the other races in the setting have normal arms and legs in normal numbers. I'm not going to go out of my way to add a legless race just because I can.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 15:05:35 No.43316136 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43316386

>>43316004
When designing a race for players I usually go by three points:
>Can a member of this race feasibly join and function in a party without resorting to meta nonsense
>Do members of this race offer interesting gameplay rewards and challenges
>Do the abilities of this race make thematic sense, and compare well to other first-party races

Also as a side note, I hope nobody actually uses the race builder for anything but a handy list of various abilities and drawbacks a race could have.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 15:07:22 No.43316163 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43316409 >>43316485

>>43316022
I'm mainly talking about Warders.

Haven't had a chance to play any others, but I keep forgetting Cursed Razor is a thing.

I will promptly remove kebab, because I have officially run into the point where I must acknowledge I was mistaken.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 15:20:16 No.43316386 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43316136
Yeah, this is my first time using the race builder but I've heard people shit all over it before so I'm taking the system with a bit of salt. I'm double-checking things with my own measure of sense, and will probably be making a fair amount of custom racial features since after looking through it for these guys I can already tell I'm going to have to.

The whole setting is like a dreamlands sort of place, literally sustained by the dreams of those of the setting's equivalent of the material plane. So there are some of the generic fantasy standards with minor twists to reflect the setting's lore, but there are also some more unusual ones like the guys I was working on before, gypsy-harpies with weak foresight powers, and intelligent slimes.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 15:21:29 No.43316409 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43316485 >>43316529

>>43316163
Being Int based, Warder gets quite a few skill points to work with, but it is something of a specialist in what it does.
That said, if you want a defensive specialist, boy does it defend while giving you the leadership and skilly parts you need to still contribute outside.

Gareth !klGnb3zBKk

Gareth !klGnb3zBKk Tue 27 Oct 2015 15:25:38 No.43316485 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43316163
No worries anon. Usually if I ask a question I'm honestly looking for info, not being rhetorical. Don't hesitate to bring somethin' up if you notice it; even if it turns out that you mis-read or misunderstood something, it's valuable to know that the piece in question created confusion.

>>43316409
This has been my general finding thus far as well, but, again, group is super low op.

Elric !iXwZjp.UKU

Elric !iXwZjp.UKU Tue 27 Oct 2015 15:28:32 No.43316529 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43316792

>>43316409
I've been playing some relatively high op warders. Can confirm this is about how they work. Hawkguard is not particularly defensive though, or at least I haven't had much reason to use it as such.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 15:28:36 No.43316531 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43310315

Red wizards are better

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 15:40:23 No.43316706 Report Delete

Quoted By:

So if I were making a unique devil, I'd apply the outsider subtype as well as the devil subtype, right? Anything else?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 15:46:38 No.43316792 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43316839

>>43316529
Can I use zweihander sentinel and dervish defender simultaneously with a double weapon like meteor hammer which is technically two-handed?

Elric !iXwZjp.UKU

Elric !iXwZjp.UKU Tue 27 Oct 2015 15:50:29 No.43316839 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43316792
No, they don't stack as archetypes. They both modify weapon and armor proficiencies and disciplines.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 15:53:04 No.43316886 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43316904 >>43317061

What makes a good GM?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 15:54:09 No.43316904 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43317061

>>43316886

Caters to players' fetishes in addition to their own

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 16:02:07 No.43317022 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43317067 >>43317084 >>43317150

How do you make adventurers a respectable class of people in society without a guild?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 16:04:16 No.43317061 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43316886
>>43316904

Knowing the game, knowing how to write a good story, knowing the players, and not being an asshole.

The most important thing, though, is having earned the players' trust. Once you have that, you can pull off things that many could consider "bad DM traits," but since in this hypothetical, you're a good DM, it will work out awesomely and the players trust you enough to believe that.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 16:04:42 No.43317067 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43317336

>>43317022

Feudalism
Varna

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 16:05:22 No.43317084 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43317336

>>43317022
Have them be an actual codified profession. Rather than random murderhobos, have them seen as problem solvers who travel to find the work they are needed for.

Basically, turn the chain of events around; adventurers do not travel looking for work, jobs turn up that lead those nearby to actively call to adventurers.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 16:09:41 No.43317150 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43317336

>>43317022
Introduce a frontier. Change adventurers from random murderhobos to something closer to real life "adventurers." They're going to some place to seek gold, glory, and fame. Potentially returning home later to cash in on it.

Between whatever resource the frontier is exploiting (land, gold, magic, something weirder) and the speed at which successful adventurers gain personal power, adventuring would be a gold rush. People would go try to be an adventurer regardless of the risk, and industries to support them would follow. The end result is a region with adventurers as a "respectable" class of people, because they're the basis for this frontier society.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 16:17:18 No.43317274 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43317388

Gareth, any chance I can get a response to my previous questions about the Umbral Blade?

Namely, a) can it get maneuvers from its previous discs or only the Umbral Blade discs and
b) shouldn't it get a new discipline like all the other PoW1 classes? Cursed Razor or something?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 16:21:45 No.43317336 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43317355

>>43317067
>Varna

What's Varna?

>>43317084
This strikes me as most easily answered by some kind of guild, which is the kind of set-up I'm trying to avoid.

Don't get me wrong, it's totally a valid answer, so thanks for that, but convenience is the single easiest answer for any chosen course of action.

>>43317150
This is an excellent idea and makes perfect sense. Thanks, anon.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 16:23:15 No.43317355 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43317336

Caste System

Gareth !klGnb3zBKk

Gareth !klGnb3zBKk Tue 27 Oct 2015 16:25:25 No.43317388 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43317652

>>43317274
It's been brought up on the internal chat & ErrantX is now aware that the question exists, but he's got some Serious Shit going on today and even when it's done he may not be in a state where he's able or willing to field it. My apologies, but stuff like family and/or having one's arm hacked off by a chainsaw come first.

(No his arm has not been hacked off by a chainsaw)

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 16:37:16 No.43317563 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43317593

I feel so lucky to be a GM for seven players that aren't murderhobos.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 16:38:57 No.43317593 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43317563
>seven players

Fuck nigga, you crazy

>aren't murderhobos

I don't believe you.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 16:41:01 No.43317628 Report Delete

Quoted By:

New thead:
>>43317619
>>43317619
>>43317619
>>43317619
>>43317619

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 16:42:33 No.43317652 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43317388
Fair enough, just curious. It doesn't affect my build massively either way but it might affect maneuver selection on the way in.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 17:02:41 No.43317948 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43315584
I might suggest this though
>Kineticist (Air, Earth, Void) Tier 4
>Kineticist (Wood,Fire) Tier 5

I'm on the fence about Aether and Water, I feel like void really just outdoes aether, though aether does have a bit more utility and a better defense, though I do perfer the adimixture blasts from void more than aether's. Water is like just in a weird spot where it is better than wood and fire without a doubt, but not quite as good as earth and air. It's probably tier 4 too.

I guess aether should be blue tier 5 and water red tier 4 is what I'm getting at.

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