/tg/ - Traditional Games » Thread #43314389

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Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 13:08:46 No.43314389 View Reply Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43314483 >>43314513 >>43319963 >>43320315 >>43327247

Hey /tg/-
How do you like bringing your heroes up from random schmucks into guys who cut the will of the planet with a bit of metal?

Do you do the even increase? Or do you have a few set gamechanger moments? Or would you rather cap things before they get so up there?

also, is it just me, or is it almost impossible to fuck up "the will of the planet" as a villain? Never seen it done bad.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 13:10:40 No.43314416 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43317897

I prefer them to become the will of the planet

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 13:16:10 No.43314483 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43314498 >>43314501 >>43314530 >>43314534

>>43314389
Chrono was the champion of the will of the planet, dummy.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 13:17:48 No.43314498 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43314530 >>43314568

>>43314483
this. lavos could not have been less will-of-the-planet. It was a damned space monster.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 13:18:06 No.43314501 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43314588 >>43314819

>>43314483
some would argue that it's lavos' planet now.

WulinSage !!s9bpfzjTdN5

WulinSage !!s9bpfzjTdN5 Tue 27 Oct 2015 13:18:51 No.43314513 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43314530 >>43314561

>>43314389
Lavos wasn't the will of the planet; it was a big dumb alien bug thing that ATE planets (or at least cosumed all life on them and made them barely habitable rocks) that influenced evolution.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO even_more_anime.jpg, 107KiB, 1280x720

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 13:19:49 No.43314530 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43314513
>>43314498
>>43314483
fine, jeez

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 13:20:00 No.43314534 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43314915

>>43314483
Crono*

And when did that happen? He was a hero, sure, but I don't remember him becoming the planet's chosen one. Gaspar, Balthazar and Melchior maybe, but the planet?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 13:22:20 No.43314561 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43314621

>>43314513
How do you reconcile calling something dumb while admitting that it manipulated evolution toward its own ends for millennia?

WulinSage !!s9bpfzjTdN5

WulinSage !!s9bpfzjTdN5 Tue 27 Oct 2015 13:22:51 No.43314568 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43314642 >>43314643 >>43314801

>>43314498
Probably one of the only legitimate examples of a Lovecraftian god-thing in gaming; it's appearance is unexplained and random, it's motives (if it has any beyond ending life on Earth) are completely unexplained, it doesn't speak, doesn't excuse it's actions, is worshipped by ancient cultures which it then summarily destroys anyway, it's one follower gained great sorcerous knowledge from it and subsequently went completely mad, and barely even acknowledges the heroes except it effortless kill one the same way we might accidentally step on an ant.

The only way it really breaks the formula is that the heroes defeat it by level-grinding until they can stab it in the face.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 13:24:08 No.43314588 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43314501
Queen Zeal for one.

WulinSage !!s9bpfzjTdN5

WulinSage !!s9bpfzjTdN5 Tue 27 Oct 2015 13:26:52 No.43314621 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43314752 >>43314754 >>43320153

>>43314561
Because that suggests it was a deliberate process; maybe it was an automatic process, the same way human beings that eat will inevitably take a shit every once in awhile.

Lavos was an effective villain because it's sheer alien-ness was never removed at any point; it was just this weird horrible thing that never felt the need to explain itself, and whatever intelligence it might have had is basically unexplained and it's motives, if it even has any must be guessed at.

Also, a REALLY impressive first appearance, great theme song, and memorable accompanying sound effect really helped.

>SKREEEEEEYEEEEEEEEEYEEEAAA

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 13:28:34 No.43314642 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43314754

>>43314568
They had magic, legendary weapons of great power, and copious amounts of time travel. I'd say that's a bit more than just taking the nearest sharp object to the thing until it stopped moving.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 13:28:34 No.43314643 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43314754 >>43314873

>>43314568
this highlights something important:

The difference between a shounen anime and serious lovecraft is a mid-season powerup.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 13:34:41 No.43314752 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43314820

>>43314621
>and the future refused to change.

And I dunno, calling it dumb is just weird to me. The way it altered the course of evolution, compared in universe to raising livestock for slaughter, made it feel like it was operating on a level way way beyond any of the other characters involved.

If it were just a mindless parasite...that's just weird.

WulinSage !!s9bpfzjTdN5

WulinSage !!s9bpfzjTdN5 Tue 27 Oct 2015 13:34:43 No.43314754 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43314621
It's kinda impressive; the game for like the first, I wanna say like two hours of gameplay is wacky fantasy hijinks.

Then you see this shit and the entire overall tone of the game changes.
http://youtu.be/IFygZVtYGYM
>>43314642
>>43314643
What's even more disturbing is that right up until recusing Crono using the titular Chrono Trigger, nothing they had done mattered and in fact in one sense had ALREADY HAPPENED since their direct involvement in the past (especially the events surrounding the fall of the Kingdom of Zeal) pretty much resulted in the timeline they already knew about.

It almost seems like by changing that one thing they managed to legitimately gain a chance to save the future, whereas before all they were doing is running through a predestination paradox they had already seen the end results of.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 13:37:48 No.43314801 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43314869

>>43314568
It's motives are perfectly explained though not by Lavos itself. It's a parasite that uses the entire planet as a nursery to grow into its final life stage wherein it takes coalesce all of the lifeforms on the planet into a singular ultimate form and in the process, produces thousands of offspring that go off into space to repeat the cycle.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 13:38:50 No.43314819 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43314501
The planet itself wouldn't, seeing as the time gates were opened by the earth trying to form an antibody system to the parasite eating it from within

WulinSage !!s9bpfzjTdN5

WulinSage !!s9bpfzjTdN5 Tue 27 Oct 2015 13:39:01 No.43314820 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43314752
It's dumb in the sense that it's intelligence couldn't really be compared to human intelligence, but you're right, Lavos might have been this vast cosmic mind that is simply impossible to properly understand.

The way it "communicated" to Zeal (and apparently anyone that came in contact with the Frozen Flame) suggests it does have SOME kind of mind, albeit a strange and bizarre one that is rather unhealthy for humans to contact.

Also, the Lovecraft parallels are almost certainly deliberate; the chapter where you go to the ocean palace and Crono gets wasted is called "Lavos Beckons" when you make a save, but a closer translation from Japanese is "The Call of Lavos", and is literally just one name removed from the Japanese title of Call of Cthulhu.

WulinSage !!s9bpfzjTdN5

WulinSage !!s9bpfzjTdN5 Tue 27 Oct 2015 13:42:52 No.43314869 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43314988

>>43314801
If that's the full summary of it's motives then it really ISN'T intelligent the way we are; that basically describes the process of eating and procreation.
If it's motivaton was just "eat and spawn", then really it's not particularly bright as the dumbest creatures on planet earth accomplish that and have that as their primary motivations in life.
It just does this process in a way that sort of suggests a cosmic scale, a million year process that results in dead worlds.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 13:42:58 No.43314873 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43314643
So the difference is that the plucky hero or whatever other underdogs actually stand a chance. They can try and succeed at beating the odds, as opposed to some grim story about the insignificant being fucked over like an ant tossed into a black hole.

I think I prefer my magical adventures and overcoming the impossible one boss battle at a time. Not that the other formula doesn't have its merits, it does! Just, given the choice, I'd take a desperate but winnable boss battle over an object lesson in futility.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 13:45:27 No.43314915 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43314934 >>43315012

>>43314534
The Entity is the one opening all the time gates and moving Crono and his party through time to fight Lavos. The Entity is most likely the planet itself trying to purge the parasitic Lavos.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 13:46:55 No.43314934 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43314915
And save Lucca's mom 'cause its a bro.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 13:51:11 No.43314988 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43315026 >>43315103

>>43314869
>It just does this process in a way that sort of suggests a cosmic scale, a million year process that results in dead worlds.
Precisely. Granted, it warped the minds of some history's most brilliant leaders to accomplish this goal and raised humans as if they were livestock, as well as quite possibly being the progenitor of magic, but it's motives were pretty basic. Robo or Lucca explains it pretty clearly if you bring them into the final fight.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 13:52:34 No.43315012 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43315108

>>43314915
There's also talk that the Entity is already dead and the gates are the result of its life flashing before its eyes, so to speak.

WulinSage !!s9bpfzjTdN5

WulinSage !!s9bpfzjTdN5 Tue 27 Oct 2015 13:53:14 No.43315026 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43315068 >>43315145

>>43314988
>Robo or Lucca explains it pretty clearly if you bring them into the final fight.

I've played and beaten the game so many times, I've seen all the convos.
Shit, I've played and beaten it so many times that I actually understand the plot of the sequel.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 13:55:55 No.43315068 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43315026
Nigga, I've gotten multiple endings multiple times so I feel you.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 13:58:03 No.43315103 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43315148 >>43315173

>>43314988
You ain't gotta be Tzeentch level scheming puppetmaster with a billion layers of complex and abstract conspiracies in conspiracies to be smart though. Simple =/= stupid.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 13:58:27 No.43315108 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43315134

>>43315012
Right, because in the main story timeline Lavos already emerged and killed everyone in 1999. The Entity seems be separate from time, which lets it open gates for the party.

I remember Lucca saying that defeating Lavos has put the Entity at rest.

WulinSage !!s9bpfzjTdN5

WulinSage !!s9bpfzjTdN5 Tue 27 Oct 2015 14:00:16 No.43315134 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43315108
Or it died and opened the Gates in the future so that people in the past could go back using the Gates and ensure it never died in the first place.

...time travel makes everything way more complicated....

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 14:00:37 No.43315145 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43315173 >>43323088

>>43315026
Too busy resenting the sequel to become an expert on its plot. lolyoulose to some of my most beloved childhood memories. Don't care how petty it makes me I can't see past that.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 14:00:43 No.43315148 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43315103
Lavos is pretty similar to a leaf cutter ant but on a cosmic scale.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 14:02:25 No.43315173 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43315103
I'm not the one calling him dumb, I just said his motives weren't incomprehensible.
>>43315145
They killed Johnny of the Robot Gang. I can never forgive them for that.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 17:00:48 No.43317897 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43319812

>>43314416
What does it mean to be the will of the planet?

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 18:46:25 No.43319812 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43317897
It means that the world itself went all Zordon on Lavos's spiny ass and assembled the ultimate dream team from across time in order to shank his ass.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 18:54:29 No.43319963 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43314389
Ar Tonelico series.

Will of the planet had enough of humans' shit and covered the entire earth with ocean of acidlava. Now you must sing her a truly awesome song to make her feel better. It makes sense in context, i swear.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 19:05:51 No.43320153 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43314621

I've always attributed this to a sort of sculpting process. Lavos wasn't directly meddling so much passively grooming its host. It's sort of like is Mass Effect how the reapers leave behind the tools so that civilization grows along certain paths, now replace 'tools' with 'magic', and possibly psychic impulses to behave in certain ways.

A number of parasites manipulate their hosts like this, but they don't plan it out or communicate. It's creepy but a fun concept to consider.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 19:13:32 No.43320315 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43320887

>>43314389
>or is it almost impossible to fuck up "the will of the planet" as a villain? Never seen it done bad.
Blue Gender screwed that pooch up to high hell.
If humans live at an electrical or higher tech level, all animals turn into killer giant adaptive bugs that kill humans on sight, sooner or later.
If humans try to move off-planet, they all go crazy and kill each other
Man is slave to Nature.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 19:43:49 No.43320887 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43323127

>>43320315
Oh, so THAT'S what the deal with that show was.
I stopped watching it midway through, at around the time they stopped showing it

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 21:45:48 No.43323088 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43315145
It really felt like a tryhard edgefest fanfic. I have no idea what they were thinking.

The only redeeming feature was that soundtrack.

Anonymous

Anonymous Tue 27 Oct 2015 21:48:34 No.43323127 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43320887
Yeah, the fight with the Queen Blue is pretty great.
That deal is only revealed in an out of body experience the main guy has in the last 15 minutes of the series

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 28 Oct 2015 01:36:18 No.43326729 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43327013

Who is the superior planet parasite: Lavos or Jenova?

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 28 Oct 2015 01:57:51 No.43327013 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43327073

>>43326729
>implying there is a contest
More like Lavos or Time Devourer

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 28 Oct 2015 02:02:34 No.43327073 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43328138

>>43327013
The answer is obviously Dream Devourer.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 28 Oct 2015 02:19:07 No.43327247 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43314389
I remember a show where the will of the planet formed an ethnically diverse teenaged ecoterrorist group.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 28 Oct 2015 04:24:40 No.43328131 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43328145 >>43328151

I always love "But the Earth refused to die." moments whenever a World-destroying monstrosity exists.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 28 Oct 2015 04:25:27 No.43328138 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43327073
What a stupid fucking boss fight.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Wed 28 Oct 2015 04:26:44 No.43328145 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>43328151

>>43328131
Or the opposite, if the heroes fail.

Anonymous

Anonymous Wed 28 Oct 2015 04:27:39 No.43328151 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>43328145
>>43328131

For some reason these two posts make me long for Blorp or to play EVO again.

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