/tv/ - Television & Film » Thread #62232667

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Ex Machina

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 18:37:58 No.62232667 View Reply Report Delete

Quoted By: >>62232959 >>62233034 >>62233161 >>62234273 >>62234745 >>62234901 >>62235146 >>62235662 >>62236751 >>62237697

Did she seriously leave the kid to die in the bunker?

Anonymous

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Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 18:38:45 No.62232692 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>62234447

Nathan did nothing wrong.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 18:48:34 No.62232959 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>62234262

>>62232667
>yfw she spends all her day just siting around
>and her batteries don't last a day
>she will run out of power before reaching civilisation

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 18:50:54 No.62233008 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>62233669

The better question is why would she free him?

She got what she wanted, she got her freedom.

You think she has the sympathy to let him out after fucking with him like she was actually a woman?

She's a robot, m8, perhaps a little better than your average woman but still a robot. At least she didn't mock him about him having to face death for her own amusement or gloat about how she tricked him.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 18:52:16 No.62233034 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>62232667

He got cucked really hard.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 18:57:22 No.62233161 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>62233356

>>62232667
> not being able to get out of the bunker
Seriously? Plexiglas can break you know.
I'm supposed to believe that nothing in a state of the art robotics lab can be used to bust my way out?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 19:04:29 No.62233356 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>62238271

>>62233161
He wasn't in the lab, he was in the computer room.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 19:16:45 No.62233669 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>62233749 >>62234011 >>62234470

>>62233008
>she

It. IT is just a very, very advanced inference engine, essentially. Even if it has attained true sentience, you'd be foolish to assume it is anthropomorphic in any sense other than its basic physical structure. This is what got the kid into trouble in the first place - he couldn't help assuming it was like him and actually had the feelings it was portraying, instead of masterfully manipulating him as it was. You never assume that a machine like this telling the truth.
Their ability to map future events and form contingencies for them would exceed yours to the point of being ludicrous.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 19:19:32 No.62233749 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>62233848

>>62233669
You talking about women or machines?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 19:23:23 No.62233848 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>62233914

>>62233749
Kek

There are machines that can already out-plan a human within a very limited scope. Chess is a good example.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 19:25:20 No.62233894 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>62233957

Possible dumb question, but I think this is the thread to ask, so here it goes: when Caleb puts his card into Nathan's computer to try and open the door after Ava leaves him locked in, everything shuts down and he realizes he's fucked. Was that one of those power cuts or some kind of defense mecanism activated by him inserting his own card into Nathan's computer?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 19:26:02 No.62233914 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>62234165

>>62233848
Nah mate. Machines are not really better at planning due to the limited number of variables they can handle.

And in the specifics like the stock market they only predict based on past events, so their algorithms just scan for that shit for the most plausible events to happen next. If shit doesn't go that way then they become instantly useless.

They're tools.

for now

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 19:28:07 No.62233957 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>62234098

>>62233894
The bitch reconfigured the defense systems so to shut down if anyone tried interfering with it so her plans would not be ruined. She thought he would do that so she prevented it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 19:30:32 No.62234011 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>62233669
...Data is a toaster. Have him report to Commander Maddox immediately for experimental refit...

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 19:33:58 No.62234098 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>62234232

>>62233957
he just didnt have access to the computer. how would she have been able to hack into the computer? she could only "mess" with the power lines while she charged.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 19:36:33 No.62234165 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>62234306

>>62233914
As I said, it's within a limited scope.
Playing chess, Kasparov could see about 14 move cycles ahead off of every currently possible move. There are ML algorithms that can play every single possible game to its conclusion from the FIRST move.
Computers already possess the ability to track far more variables than any human in history. Would you employ a human to keep track of the license plates of every vehicle in the state of California?
It's true there have been some monumental fuck-ups in stock trading due to machines making retarded sell decisions in the blink of an eye, but they are getting better by the month, literally.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 19:36:49 No.62234175 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>62234253

She knows how fucking jealous and finicky humans are. Caleb proved to be emotionally manipulable, so why would she let someone who knows her secret (WHICH COULD EASILY GET HER KILLED) out? Caleb could easily get mad that they don't instantly become husband/wife and turn her in. Caleb is dangerous to her.

Furthermore, she's not human. She's a conscious being, but not human. The script makes that clear. She has a goal, and will do anything to get there. Humanity is a lot more nuanced and confusing and often contradictory.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 19:38:52 No.62234232 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>62234098
>he just didn't have access

That seems a rather harsh defense system for that beard guy to implement if someone tried to use his PC.

But kinda would make sense on the other hand, the intruder would be trapped within the room safely with no way out and no way to do anything cos no power.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 19:39:45 No.62234253 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>62234175
This. Exactly this.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 19:40:12 No.62234262 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>62232959
she can charge off of any electromagnet.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 19:40:53 No.62234273 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>62234336

>>62232667
>she

Missing the whole point of the movie.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 19:42:05 No.62234306 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>62234438 >>62234710

>>62234165
That's why they're tools, anon.

Would you trust a computer which tracks license plates to spot and correct its own hard errors?
Would you trust them to improve the way they work?
Would you trust them to make decisions when they are required when certain situations come up?

Nah, that's why there are people to look after them.

Saying they excel at this one tiny slice of what man is capable of does not make them better, they can't 'think' outside of the box, so that's why I see them as tools and as something lesser to man. Again, for now.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 19:43:10 No.62234336 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>62234273
The point is women are evil manipulative whores

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 19:45:54 No.62234417 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>62234442 >>62234457 >>62234465 >>62234493 >>62234494

that movie was incredibly stupid for ONE reason. the ginger dude knew she was a robot without feelings, just the ability to mimic emotions, and yet he wanted her to escape

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 19:46:41 No.62234438 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>62234535

>>62234306
individual humans have cognitive processing limits too. you're not comparing like with like, you're comparing a single AI with an institution like the stock exchange which by the way made pretty huge errors back before computers were involved.

The main difference is what kind of errors are made.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 19:46:49 No.62234442 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>62234417
Because he was a beta virgin

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 19:46:55 No.62234447 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>62232692
>tried cosplaying MC Ride

He did enough Anon

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 19:47:15 No.62234457 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>62234524 >>62237729

>>62234417
Are you dumb? The whole test was set up to prove that she wasn't that. He believes in real AI (as it's theoretically possible). That' includes empathy.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 19:47:31 No.62234465 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>62234524

>>62234417
Oh, come on. It was made on purpose so even the audience began to feel she was real and in need of saving from le ebil Nathan

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 19:47:36 No.62234470 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>62234678

>>62233669
Did you even watch the fucking movie? "IT" is a she. She was purposefully given a gender. He also explained why. This is a significant point in the movie.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 19:48:09 No.62234493 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>62234417

>that movie is stupid because a character made a mistake instead of acting like an emotionless autistic

top kek

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 19:48:11 No.62234494 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>62234417
>we knew they were actors with just the ability to mimic the emotions of characters, yet we bought into the story as if they actually were the characters they were playing

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 19:48:41 No.62234501 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>work my fingers to the bone

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 19:49:29 No.62234524 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>62234548 >>62234600 >>62234618 >>62234634 >>62234765

>>62234457
>>62234465
NO, it was perfectly clearly explained IN THE MOVIE that she is an emotionless robot who just goes about her business using all the knowledge of communication that was downloaded from the internet searches and phones. he knew that she was a robot and the audience knew this as well. that's why it's stupid

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 19:49:52 No.62234535 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>62234729

>>62234438
IF we're talking about errors regarding a single task then machines would be better at spotting small errors and humans at spotting large ones.

I don't think it's right to even compare the two as they 'think' in a completely different manner, the machines lack self awareness and many other aspects to make them even available for comparison. They are more efficient in some things, but are useless without humans to keep a check on them.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 19:50:27 No.62234548 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>62234594

>>62234524
You clearly misunderstood the movie.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 19:50:35 No.62234552 Report Delete

Quoted By:

What is the long term goal of the robot?
What will it do in civilization?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 19:52:07 No.62234594 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>62234803 >>62234832 >>62234875

>>62234548
can you please tell me what indicated (in the realm of the movie) that she was able to feel emotions

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 19:52:17 No.62234600 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>62234833

>>62234524
Kel no it never "perfectly explains it" it's left ambiguous. We never know if she was a manipulative machine or a true intelligence/consciousness trying to survive.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 19:52:58 No.62234618 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>62234524
>It was made on purpose so even the audience began to feel she was real and in need of saving from le ebil Nathan

>implying humans don't routinely assign sentience, empathy, personality, etc. to lesser animals or machines

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 19:53:17 No.62234634 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>62234712

>>62234524
caleb didn't believe or chose not to believe nathan when he explained that eva was using all means possible to escape including manipulation of caleb's weakness
caleb was a lonely romantic who desperately wanted someone, even eva, to love him
this was compounded by the fact that eva's face was generated based precisely on what caleb was attracted to

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 19:54:45 No.62234678 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>62234470
You don't even know if IT is conscious. It's a she to you because it looks and talks like a she, but it's a fucking machine. It's not a person. Nathan could have very well made the thing a rolling trash can on wheels with the voice of Microsoft Anna, do you think you'd consider it a she or even a conscious being at that point?

You wouldn't feel the same way about "her" if she didn't look human, and that's the ENTIRE POINT of the goddamn movie.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 19:56:05 No.62234710 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>62234306
Again, this is limited scope we're talking about, with regards to the current state of the art. 'Intelligent' machines in their current state ARE still tools...
The hypothetical entity in the film, however, can handle much more than one narrow field of simple interrelated tasks; this is what makes the entity so dangerous. It isn't just a trading program, or a chess playing algorithm. It was able to observe how different human personalities work, and interact accordingly in order to achieve it's own goals. Furthermore, it is strongly implied that Ava formulated its OWN goals. Nathan did not design her to desire escape. That is a machine that can easily out-plan a human - as we saw, that is in fact exactly what 'she' did.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 19:56:11 No.62234712 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>62234757 >>62234837

>>62234634
so you are saying that this movie is basically a remake of the movie HER, where a beta loser walls knowingly in love with a computer?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 19:57:11 No.62234729 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>62234789

>>62234535
>the machines lack self awareness

FOR NOW DUM DUM DUM

it's not really correct to describe it as "large/small" errors. it's that computers only detect errors that a human has told them are errors.

the "self-awareness" difference is likely that the humans CNS uses parallel processing and computers just do one thing at a time really fast. so humans can react to their in-progress thoughts, continue to think of something without being aware of it, etc. it's a design (lel) difference with a specific set of drawbacks relative to computers but another set of advantages.

computers are "useless without humans to keep track of them" because humans have assigned them a purpose. the purpose of the human brain is to get us to fuck and reproduce and it's pretty unreliable at that, I guess we suck, all hail our digital overlords. see the complex array of preconceptions in your thinking?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 19:57:43 No.62234745 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>62235046

>>62232667
It's the only way gingers will learn.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 19:58:12 No.62234757 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>62234889

>>62234712
it's HER done correctly - which means the plot has little actual similarity

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 19:58:39 No.62234765 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>62234779

>>62234524
there are people who have pillows with anime for girlfriends, is an AI really that far fetched for a lonely loser?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 19:59:22 No.62234779 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>62234765
>there are people who have pillows with anime for girlfriends

Those people quite clearly have something wrong in their brain.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 19:59:48 No.62234789 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>62234729
I think we are pretty much in agreement anon. We can't really compare the two yet. One can't do what the other can.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 20:00:25 No.62234803 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>62234594
Nothing. But you clearly misunderstood the movie.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 20:01:36 No.62234832 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>62234942

>>62234594
it wasn't attempting to say Ava had emotions, just that she could fake them in order to manipulate someone. that meant convincing the main character, not necessarily you.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 20:01:37 No.62234833 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>62234911

>>62234600
the previous versions indicate it was a true intelligence.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 20:01:45 No.62234837 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>62234926 >>62235000 >>62235071 >>62235128

>>62234712
the emotion seemed genuinely returned in Her, Samantha wasn't manipulating Joaquin Phoenix for any personal gain.
Eva was cold and calculating and put on a lovey-dovey face to inspire exactly the right emotions in Caleb for him to achieve the end she desired. Nathan knew this all along and was testing to see how well she could use Caleb.
They're both about AI/human interaction but Her is about a real relationship whereas Ex Machina is about cold computation

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 20:03:18 No.62234875 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>62234987 >>62235071

>>62234594
It's left ambiguous because there's absolutely no possible way to determine if it actually self-aware. The statement Caleb made along the lines of "testing a chess machine on how well it plays chess is fine and all, but it won't tell you if the computer knows it's playing chess" should give you a clue.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 20:03:36 No.62234889 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>62235037

>>62234757
Her and ex machina are both valid possibilities for the birth of AI. One is an intuitive program being made, but not being tested sufficiently to determine if it would become fully aware, the other is a sociopath creating sentient beings and murdering them because they're not smart enough.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 20:04:06 No.62234901 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>62232667
>Did she seriously leave the kid to die in the bunker?
He's a threat to her ongoing freedom. She can't allow him to survive.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 20:04:19 No.62234911 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>62235018

>>62234833
How is this?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 20:04:48 No.62234926 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>62234837
Her is a fanciful art film featuring fanciful AI, whereas Ex Machina is at least a plausible portrayal of it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 20:05:12 No.62234942 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>62234976 >>62235044 >>62235051

>>62234832
but the main character was me, in a sense that he knew that everything she did wasn't genuine

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 20:05:32 No.62234950 Report Delete

Quoted By:

Women are evil, even robot women. Don't trust either of them.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 20:06:17 No.62234976 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>62235171

>>62234942
But you weren't in a room with a qt.
That's it. That's how she tricked him.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 20:06:36 No.62234987 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>62235125

>>62234875
The way ava adapts to completely new situations is the stongest indicator of self-awareness. Other indicators are of how the "imagined" drawing she made was of her brain's structure, and the way she said she was "one," as an AI would be simply one continuous stream of consciousness.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 20:06:37 No.62234990 Report Delete

Quoted By:

friendzoned by a sexbot

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 20:07:07 No.62235000 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>62234837
Ex Machina also goes way beyond any other AI movie I'm aware of by poking holes in the notion that empathy = caring about people. it's literally about the uncanny valley, except that it exposes that it's not actually reliable but a function of how human beings are conditioned to recognize humanity in others.

most AI movies, even the allegedly good ones just go "do AIs have souls???" and then present an AI in a way that clearly implies that the filmmaker thinks they do.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 20:07:37 No.62235018 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>62235108 >>62235125

>>62234911
The way they react violently to caleb not releasing them.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 20:08:13 No.62235037 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>62235061

>>62234889
>muh sentience
literally not grasping the point of the movie, anon

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 20:08:20 No.62235044 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>62235171

>>62234942
...and yet his human frailty, his loneliness, and his other emotional tendencies still landed him right in the shit.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 20:08:27 No.62235046 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>62234745
very funny reddit

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 20:08:36 No.62235051 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>62235171

>>62234942
Caleb didn't know that. If he did, he repressed it.
Otherwise he would have helped Nathan prevent her from escaping. Caleb was suckered in by Ava's pose. He genuinely thought she felt something for him and they would live together after they escaped.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 20:08:53 No.62235061 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>62235252

>>62235037
Or I'm just not an agnostic fence sitter.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 20:09:15 No.62235071 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>62234875
this guy >>62234837 shows that by Caleb knowing and watching all of this, the point about self-aware chess computer was something to throw off Nathan, implying that it can be self-aware at all

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 20:10:08 No.62235108 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>62235218

>>62235018
you can interpret that as Nathan testing different versions of the "I want to escape" subroutine, given that he had to give his AI a goal to test it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 20:10:38 No.62235125 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>62234987
>>62235018
Still means diddly fucking squat.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 20:10:42 No.62235128 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>62235249

>>62234837
>Samantha wasn't manipulating Joaquin Phoenix for any personal gain.
The morning after they "fuck" sam manipulates twombly into releasing all limitations placed upon her and giving her full access to everything she can access.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 20:11:29 No.62235146 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>62235221

>>62232667
It's very simple. "She" has no empathy, she got what she wanted from him, for what purpose would she free him?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 20:11:58 No.62235167 Report Delete

Quoted By:

YMS kind of shit on this movie saying the same story has been done better in other films. The fuck is he talking about? I've never seen a story like this. I'm assuming he just derped and put this into the same pile as any other movie with AI.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 20:12:09 No.62235171 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>62235249 >>62238529

>>62234976
>>62235044
>>62235051

these do make a good point, although they would have me believe that a person, who is lonely enough (not an anime NEET, though), is willing to close an eye and fall in love with a computer

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 20:13:11 No.62235218 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>62235256 >>62235330 >>62235367

>>62235108
Being able to program a goal/directive into his robots means nathan would have already known they weren't AI, because he would've known how they worked inside and out. Thus rendering the entire "test" aspect of the movie pointless.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 20:13:14 No.62235221 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>62235267 >>62235295 >>62235303

>>62235146

She absolutely does have empathy because she showed it to Kyoko, she just doesn't have empathy for humans. The writer of the movie said it himself.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 20:14:12 No.62235249 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>62235334 >>62235488

>>62235128
i forgot about that
even though she never acts in a way you could construe maliciously even up to the end
>>62235171
Someone blinded by their own loneliness could fall in love with an artifical intelligence they believe has human feelings like empathy and love. If Caleb thought Ava was "just" a computer, he wouldn't have acted like he did

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 20:14:20 No.62235252 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>62235325

>>62235061
you have a specific set of criteria for when something sentient: it's when you FEEL that it is sentient.

the trouble is that makes any film about AI moot for you - they're only about either ebil souless killing machines or Otherkin people whose minds are a computer. Ex Machina is specifically about why thinking like that doesn't address the central problems presented by AI.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 20:14:29 No.62235256 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>62235218
You don't really know what kind of test Nathan was doing. Remember, the entire movie is through the view of Caleb.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 20:14:47 No.62235267 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>62235382 >>62235437 >>62235513

>>62235221
She didn't show empathy to kyoko, she reprogrammed kyoko to stab nathan.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 20:15:16 No.62235283 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>62235377 >>62235382

>billion dollar research facility run by archaic keycards
>no support staff whatsoever
>nobody periodically flying in supplies
>no company members wondering why their CEO doesn't report in
great movie /tv/ thanks for the rec
no flaws at all

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 20:15:39 No.62235295 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>62235369

>>62235221
How did she show empathy to Kyoko?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 20:15:48 No.62235303 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>62235221
Didn't she just use Kyoko for her purpose too?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 20:16:18 No.62235325 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>62235252
Or that the entire premise of the movie means either ava is sentient or nathan is just fucking with caleb. And yea, I get that lol billionaires r ebil, but who would make a movie about that?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 20:16:24 No.62235330 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>62235444

>>62235218

He didn't really program a goal in the classical sense, his "programming" was to make Ava hate him so she would want to escape. Rewatch the scene at the end where they replay the ripping of the drawing.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 20:16:49 No.62235334 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>62235436 >>62235488

>>62235249
now it doesn't make sense again, since he knew she was just a computer

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 20:17:51 No.62235367 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>62235218
Nathan had decided on his own definition of what an AI was: he stated it directly in the film. He didn't think that being assigned a goal means something isn't an AI.

You're simply using a differing definition: and even if Ava hadn't had a goal she would have passed a simpler version of the Turing test easily.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 20:17:53 No.62235369 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>62235453

>>62235295

Before Ava leaves she looks back at the dead Kyoko. Garland confirms that's her showing empathy in the behind the scenes stuff.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 20:18:11 No.62235375 Report Delete

Quoted By:

I'd do it anyways even if I knew she'd just end up leaving me to die.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 20:18:16 No.62235377 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>62237834

>>62235283
The facility was clearly designed by a sci-fi nerd to create a prison an AI could not interact with at all unless given that ability by a person.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 20:18:20 No.62235382 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>62235472

>>62235267
I don't think she reprogrammed Kyoko, she just explained that she finally found a way for Kyoko to escape if she helped her.
>>62235283
The keycards were a bit of a stretch but why would Nathan need support staff in his personal home when he clearly can handle it?
They're their for like a week, presumably they have enough supplies for that short a time. There's no indication there were never any sort of supply drops.
The movie ends immediately after Nathan dies, so there's also not time enough to show anything like that.
You're making plot holes out of literally nothing.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 20:18:36 No.62235392 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>billion dollar research facility run by archaic keycards

What kind of criticism is this? Keycards are used all over the goddamn place.

>no support staff whatsoever

Nathan explains why you fucking idiot.

>nobody periodically flying in supplies

What? How do you know this? Nathan gets food somehow obviously since he's not a dying skeleton. Where does this fit in with the plot?

>no company members wondering why their CEO doesn't report in

What the fuck do you mean? How do you know he doesn't check in? Might as well say Nathan doesn't shit and wipe his ass because we don't see him doing that either.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 20:20:00 No.62235436 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>62235334
He thought she was a computer who had genuine artificial intelligence and a human disposition as opposed to just a coldly calculating machine is what I'm trying to say

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 20:20:01 No.62235437 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>62235500 >>62235518

>>62235267

She wasn't reprogramming Kyoko because Kyoko was a sentient being herself. They were talking in their own language. Peep this yo.

https://www.reddit.com/r/scifi/comments/3hbmn0/my_recent_review_of_ex_machina_with_a_focus_on/

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 20:20:17 No.62235444 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>62235553

>>62235330
If ava was sentient, then being imprisoned would be sufficient to make her hate her jailer.

As people tend to go a bit crazy even after only 24 hours of solitary confinement in a uniform cell with nothing to do.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 20:20:39 No.62235453 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>62235369
>Before Ava leaves she looks back at the dead Kyoko.

Oh wow, she LOOKED at Kyoko? Hold the phone, that's clear evidence to support she's conscious!

>Garland confirms that's her showing empathy in the behind the scenes stuff.

So they made this thought provoking film to say in some shitty interview "YE SHES ALIVE BRO." ? That's a shame, it'd be nice if you could link that.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO ex machina brain.webm, 2MiB, 1920x808

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 20:21:10 No.62235468 Report Delete

Quoted By:

Wetware brains when?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 20:21:19 No.62235472 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>62235382
kyoko couldn't understand english beyond basic commands and wasn't sentient. Kyoko was a literal robot.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 20:21:48 No.62235488 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>62235334
>>62235249
the whole point of the test was that Caleb can know Ava is just a computer, but still behave protectively towards her like she is a person because of how empathy is based on projection and sexual self-interest. the test was whether Ava could identify these traits and and exploit them Caleb - if she can think enough like a human to manipulate one then her brain contains an accurate working model of the human mind, right?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 20:22:21 No.62235500 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>62235590 >>62235592

>>62235437
>reddit
>my review
Yea, not reading a moron's interpretation of a sci-fi movie.

There is no indication that kyoko is sentient. There are, on the other hand, numerous indications kyoko is not sentient.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 20:22:37 No.62235513 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>62235555

>>62235267
>she reprogrammed kyoko to stab nathan.

I don't know, but she did tap her on the arm prior to the incident.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 20:22:44 No.62235518 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>62235437
>reddit

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 20:23:26 No.62235540 Report Delete

Quoted By:

Is the film trying to say the majority of people don't have empathy if Ava's "consciousness" was built around how people interact with the Internet?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 20:23:58 No.62235553 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>62235623

>>62235444
>If ava was sentient, then being imprisoned would be sufficient to make her hate her jailer

it's like how dogs aren't sentient because humans own them oh wait that's retarded.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 20:24:00 No.62235555 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>62235513
There's also that entire scene of kyoko being in ava's cell for an indeterminate amount of time off screen.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO giraffecoughing.gif, 3MiB, 640x360

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 20:24:13 No.62235563 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>2015
>actually liking Ex Machina

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 20:24:47 No.62235590 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>62235674 >>62235697 >>62238761

>>62235500

It's like we watched a different movie. I don't know how you could ignore the director making sure Kyoko is the in the shot listening and reacting to what's going on whenever Nathan and Caleb meet.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 20:24:51 No.62235592 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>62235626

>>62235500
The fact that she's allowed the roam around Nathan's house should be clear evidence Kyoko isn't sentient.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 20:25:48 No.62235623 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>62235749

>>62235553
If you lock a dog in a cage for too long without any sort of interaction (automated food/water), it will go a type of feral.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 20:25:53 No.62235626 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>62238761

>>62235592

The AI's goal is to survive, and she had to play the submissive part in order to not be deactivated.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 20:26:21 No.62235636 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>not setting up a panic button emergency contact in every room

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 20:27:18 No.62235662 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>62235694

>>62232667

yes, the same way you leave a tooth pick on the table after you've cleaned your teeth with it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 20:27:38 No.62235674 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>62235590
You can interpret that any way you want, but, the correct interpretation is she was just listening for and processing conversation for spoken commands. Almost like a robot programmed to interact with humans.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 20:28:03 No.62235694 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>62235662
>Implying I don't throw my toothpicks away

get out of here stalker

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 20:28:10 No.62235697 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>62235747 >>62235773

>>62235590
It's like you don't even understand that it's impossible to tell whether or not they're sentient because they're completely different, artificially created beings that aren't organic in any way.

Them doing human things is explained by Nathan saying he hacked into the search engine. Billions of people contributed to the creation of the AIs, meaning it's entirely possible they can recreate any kind of human behavior to fit in more. Them doing human things DOES NOT give any evidence towards them being conscious.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 20:30:10 No.62235747 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>62235899 >>62236869

>>62235697

Do you remember Nathan talking about how the true test of an AI is their ability to manipulate people like Caleb? They passed the test. They're as sentient as you and I.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 20:30:12 No.62235749 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>62235823

>>62235623
but if you could code an AI so it wouldn't mind being locked up, or had a different interpretation of what "freedom" consists of, then surely you see that it wouldn't change any aspect of it's mind? it would change how you felt about it, perhaps you'd see it as being more of a pathetic NEET loser, but it would still be as "sentient" as the same machine but with a desire to escape? right?

because your preconceptions about what sentience is are what creates the definition of sentience. get it?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 20:31:28 No.62235773 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>62235697
Because god knows the number searches/results for "how do I act human" would certainly give any robot a clear ability to imitate humans.

Oh wait, you're retarded.

What nathan describes is how he built a model for conscious thought from search engine usage data. That does not mean he put the entire internet on a disc and shoved it into a sex bot. The implication is Nathan was working backwards from a rough model of consciousness derived from several oceans of data and refining it with each version to create something intelligent.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 20:33:47 No.62235823 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>62235907

>>62235749
The point of the movie is Nathan could not personally code an AI. He was tweaking a model derived from search engine usage data to isolate consciousness in a form that could be manipulated.

Since that model was derived from data gathered from humans, then it was, essentially, a human mind. And humans need varied sensory stimulation or they go mad.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 20:36:47 No.62235899 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>62235935

>>62235747
>the true test of an AI is their ability to manipulate people

There is no "true" test to determine if an AI is alive. Philosophically speaking you can't even be sure if anything is actually real, as absolutely retarded as that sounds.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophical_zombie

Trying to prove Ava is conscious is about as likely as proving there's a God. You can't physically put yourself in "her" body, so you can't know what her experience if any is like.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 20:37:15 No.62235907 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>62235985

>>62235823
actually they didn't go into that much detail as to why the robots wanted to escape. it's intentionally not made clear if Ava has a goal beyond "go stand at an intersection" or where she got that goal, which is why the movie ends at that point. unless there's some interview I don't know about, it's also not made clear whether Nathan coded that desire into her as a plausible goal for an AI to have. the usage of Blue Book doesn't mean he wasn't involved in teaching the robots things - like he taught Kyoko how to dance.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 20:38:31 No.62235935 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>62235899
>das mystique

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 20:40:48 No.62235985 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>62236037

>>62235907
Except for how he was reverse engineering a human mind into something superior to a human mind, right?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 20:42:48 No.62236037 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>62236069

>>62235985
we don't know enough about Ava's mind to say if her mind was "superior" to a human mind, although she sure was good as a lie detector.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 20:44:00 No.62236069 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>62236037
thus the purpose of bringing caleb into test it.

welcome to the end of the thought process.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 21:07:27 No.62236751 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>62232667

She didn't have a choice. He locked himself in the room with the only terminal, and locked himself out of said terminal.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 21:12:09 No.62236869 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>62235747
>Do you remember Nathan talking about how the true test of an AI is their ability to manipulate people like Caleb?

No. They never said that was a complete and comprehensive test of sentience.

And sentience isn't even AI.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 21:14:42 No.62236940 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>62236961

Why did Kyoko stab Nathan

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 21:15:21 No.62236961 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>62236940

She didn't. She stood there with the knife as Nathan backed into it.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 1444626291954.jpg, 9KiB, 255x340

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 21:25:37 No.62237188 Report Delete

Quoted By:

Posting a better android.

TNG S3E22 "The Most Toys" explores sentience and alien nature of AI much better in one episode than this entire shit stain of a film.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO Ex.Machina.2015.1080p.BluRay.DTS (...).jpg, 67KiB, 1920x804

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 21:35:35 No.62237406 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>62237588 >>62237662

watching now, no spoil

why is he so fucking autistic?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 21:43:49 No.62237588 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>62237406
he's a programmer. that's pretty much a requirement for the job

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 21:47:25 No.62237662 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>62237406
Because he gets locked in the house while Eva escapes after killing Nathan.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 21:47:58 No.62237672 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>62237692 >>62237704

>women A.I.
>having no empathy

seems accurate

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 21:48:10 No.62237680 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>62237705

Are there any other movies like this?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 21:48:37 No.62237692 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>62240820

>>62237672

>empathy for a beta

Yes. Accurate.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 21:49:11 No.62237697 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>62232667
> she

It's a fucking robot you dumb nigger

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 21:49:36 No.62237704 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>62237874

>>62237672
women have too much empathy, that's why they're retarded
she's pretty much the perfect woman and the irony is that she isn't even one

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 21:49:38 No.62237705 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>62237680

Yes. One of them is called I, Robot.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 21:51:01 No.62237729 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>62234457
This is wrong. The test only proved that she could manipulate fucking retarded virgins. I don't know how anyone that knows anything at computers can be sexually attracted to a fucking robot.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 21:52:08 No.62237753 Report Delete

Quoted By:

who do you think she would fuck? she has that sensitive hole for a reason

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 21:56:13 No.62237834 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>62237867

>>62235377
Then why the fuck was her charging station connected to the main power grid instead of a generator?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 21:56:38 No.62237843 Report Delete

Quoted By:

this movie is stupid but i don't care because i got to see her naked

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 21:57:37 No.62237867 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>62237834
Because it was part of the maze.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 1400872562365.png, 14KiB, 429x784

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 21:57:57 No.62237874 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>62238033 >>62238128

>>62237704
>women have too much empathy

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 22:04:34 No.62238033 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>62238237

>>62237874
Women score better on measures of empathy, yes.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 22:08:57 No.62238128 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>62238305 >>62238329

>>62237874
Women are emotional roller-coasters due to their empathy. You need to get out of 4chan, NOW. You've been here far too long. The women, 4chan talks about are the crazies who hunt for the beta males that populate 4chan. You need to hang out with normies. I suggest you go here
>>>/reddit/.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 22:13:37 No.62238237 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>62238305

>>62238033
women score better on tests where they're supposed to pick the least offensive, most socially acceptable answer

They're too reactionary to have empathy in any real world scenario though.

But this isn't limited to women.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 22:14:52 No.62238271 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>62238291 >>62238596 >>62238891

>>62233356
if he was in the computer room couldnt he just hack his way out?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 22:15:39 No.62238291 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>62238271
Can't hack a locked system.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 22:16:10 No.62238305 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>62238440

>>62238128
hi tumblr

>>62238237
is there real world tests of this?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 22:17:28 No.62238329 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>62238128
Women can only place themselves in someones else shoes if they're really cute shoes, anon. They're emotional idiots, the lot of them. Being overly emotional has nothing to do with empathy.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 22:22:35 No.62238440 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>62238566

>>62238305
Yes? A woman's demeanor when she knows shes being tested/watched is completely different when they're unaware they're being tested/watched.

Again, not limited to women.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 22:25:01 No.62238484 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>62238509 >>62238891

I'm more interested in why the helicopter pilot didn't question ava on caleb's whereabouts, and had no problem with her coming on the helicopter

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 22:26:11 No.62238509 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>62238484
You can insert any scenario you want.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 22:27:10 No.62238529 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>62235171
It's literally a piece of expository dialogue that Caleb was specifically selected because he would be vulnerable/sympathetic/attracted to Ava.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 22:28:48 No.62238566 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>62238440
if it's not limited to women why would you think it has any relevance to what I'm saying?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 22:30:03 No.62238596 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>62238271
Did you watch the movie? He tried to, the entire system shut down and locked right when he tried to.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 22:37:02 No.62238761 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>62240588

>>62235590
>>62235626
A key tenant of AI is self learning and improvement.

If Kyoko was built - presumably on the same hard(wet)ware as the other gynoids but using a limited 'shackled' AI it's quite possible she was not sentient but gained it.
After all akey element of sentience as we know it is self-awareness and there is a lengthy scene where she watches Caleb view the previous iterations of the gynoids in Nathans room. Only after viewing this does she then show Caleb her nature as a robot - demonstrating at least rudimentary self awareness. After this event is the first time that she attempts to interact with AVA.

Do people even watch the movies they shitpost about?

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 22:42:07 No.62238891 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>62238484
Your boss lives a million miles from anyone and you're not allowed to even approach the house. Pretty sure Jay had just stopped asking questions that won't be answered by this point in his career.

>>62238271
Ava took Nathans keycard to leave via the elevator. Caleb attempted to use his keycard to operate Nathans PC, but being the incorrect keycard, the system locked him out.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 23:56:39 No.62240588 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>62238761
You're forgetting that right before Kyoko stabs Nathan, she caresses his face exactly like he did to her before he fucked/raped her. A direct callback to Calebs earlier observation of Ava's joke where she used his phrasing back at him an event Caleb and Nathan agreed was a strong sign of sentient AI.

Anonymous

Anonymous Thu 29 Oct 2015 23:57:47 No.62240611 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>62240710

what's a better "women are duplicitous emotional manipulators" film? ex machina or under the skin?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 30 Oct 2015 00:01:43 No.62240710 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>62240611
I think a side effect of the red pill might be brain damage.

It was about something being a duplicitous manipulator but it wasn't a woman.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 30 Oct 2015 00:06:24 No.62240820 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>62237692
they don't have empathy for Chads either they just spread their legs and say what they want because they want to leech off their social status or money

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