/x/ - Paranormal » Thread #16881700

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Anonymous Fri 23 Oct 2015 18:53:43 No.16881700 View Reply Report Delete

Quoted By: >>16882546 >>16882586 >>16882619 >>16882673 >>16883872

My friend REFUSES to believe in the grandfather paradox, calling it utterly stupid... However he believes in Donnie Darko's 'tangent universe', something that was created specifically for the movie

Well anyway, no one fucking knows, so why does he get so worked up about it?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 23 Oct 2015 18:56:26 No.16881712 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>16881719 >>16881724 >>16881725

whats the grandfather paradox

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 23 Oct 2015 18:58:48 No.16881719 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>16881712
If you go back in time and kill your grandfather, you will cease to exist.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 23 Oct 2015 18:59:45 No.16881724 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>16881738 >>16881767 >>16882678

>>16881712
you kill your grandad and he was never alive to make you and thus you were never alive to kill him
logically impossible if we're on a single timeline
its solved with a separate timeline theory but that means we can't affect time at all

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 23 Oct 2015 18:59:48 No.16881725 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>16881712
..
You go back in time and kill your grandfather when he was a child
But wait!
How could you kill your grandfather if you were never born?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 23 Oct 2015 19:02:37 No.16881738 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>16881724
By simply being in the past you've essentially created an alternative timeline

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 23 Oct 2015 19:08:59 No.16881756 Report Delete

Quoted By:

but, essentially, I already exist, right? So by killing my grandfather, I've created an alternate timeline, but I'm from a different timeline, one where I was born. it would honestly be a necessary step, in this alternate timeline I'd be untraceable (no birth certificate, no family, no registry in the system) and I wouldn't want there to be 2 of me. So in the new timeline I would be able to do whatever the fuck I wanted, but to get back to my own timeline, I'd need a machine that traveled to alternate dimensions, not a time machine.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 23 Oct 2015 19:10:58 No.16881767 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>16881724
We are on a single timeline and can't affect time in any meaningful capacity.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 23 Oct 2015 19:13:39 No.16881775 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>16882600

Going back in time fucks with the whole idea of entropy.

We see no evidence of entropy being violated.

Going back in time is not possible, in fact can not happen.

No, just because you think it would be cool doesn't matter. Time only goes one direction.

I know, I know, on the quantum level it's impossible to tell if a process is going forward or backwards and at that level it doesn't seem to matter--- but what they're saying is that "IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO TELL" at that level, not that it's happening. It's impossible for me to tell what someone I've never met is thinking right a given second, that doesn't mean I do know because you can't prove otherwise. It's means it's impossible for me to know.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 23 Oct 2015 23:39:57 No.16882546 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>16883445

>>16881700
I figure that if time travel did exist, then everything is already decided. So if, for example, you were to try to go back in time and kill your grandfather, then your gun would jam repeatedly, or you would be hit by a bus before you got the chance, something like that. Basically, things have already worked out and have been set in stone. You can't change them. Something will prevent you from changing the past - no matter how improbable - since it would have had to have happened already in order for you to be attempting time travel in the first place.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 23 Oct 2015 23:42:02 No.16882552 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>16882571 >>16883445

didn't futurama have an episode on this where Fry became his own grandfather?

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 23 Oct 2015 23:46:29 No.16882564 Report Delete

Quoted By:

Chances are your friend quite wisely has an instinctual belief in the many worlds interpretation of quantum physics and also automatically recognizes the "Back to the Future" rules of time travel you subscribe to to be the bullshit that they are.

Presuming that backward time travel is or ever will be possible, any traveling backward in time will simply create an alternate time line. You could do whatever the fuck you want and it won't erase you from existence.

Sadly, you will also never return to your own timeline unless something even more complex than backward time travel is also discovered. Anyone who were to travel back in time without some sort of timeline-bridging technology would never be seen again by the people in his home timeline.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 23 Oct 2015 23:47:33 No.16882571 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>16882552
He did do the nasty in the pasty

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 23 Oct 2015 23:52:45 No.16882586 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>16881700
maybe he's smarter than you?

if you kill your grandpappy, you branch off into a divergent universe, eliminating the paradox

that is what the tangent universe is

paradox solved, OP confirmed shortsighted

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 23 Oct 2015 23:56:53 No.16882600 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>16881775
time dilation fucks with the whole idea of entropy since a object experiencing decreased time will be less effected over time

time dilation is accepted scientific fact

physically going back in time wouldnt be like in movies because the planet is rotating and orbiting the sun and the solar system moving through the galaxy and galaxy through the universe

so even if you could you could end up inside the earth or out in space or about to crash into the sun but entropy doesnt dismiss the concept scientifically especially since you have no way of knowing how much entropy has effected the matter scattered across the universe and if its consistent

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 23 Oct 2015 23:57:46 No.16882603 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>16884201

With regards to the Grandfather Paradox, let's say you go back AGAIN, this time to kill the you that is trying to kill your grandfather.

Would you now count as being from a third timeline, and the you you're killing from the second? What about the you that would later be born in the resulting timeline (assuming nothing happens to prevent that)?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Oct 2015 00:00:40 No.16882619 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>16882635

>>16881700
>Well anyway, no one fucking knows, so why does he get so worked up about it?
Depends. If he says he disagrees, do you let it slide or do you become an obnoxious sperg about it? You guys honestly sound like you probably also argue about whether Data is better off having human emotions or not.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Oct 2015 00:03:20 No.16882635 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>16882619
That would honestly be a lot more interesting discussion imo because it has actual philosophical relevance.

Also I just like Star Trek.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sat 24 Oct 2015 00:09:56 No.16882673 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>16883610

>>16881700
Read some of David Lewis' stuff on time travel, he was a metaphysics philosopher who argued that no matter what you do, a string of improbable coincidences would prevent you from killing your grandfather (or in his examples your infant self).
I can't remember who wrote this particular paper but 'Bananas Enough for Time Travel?' is another interesting read.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Oct 2015 00:11:17 No.16882678 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>16881724
Exactly right. In my metaphyisics class the first rule of 'Time Travel Club' was 'no alternate timelines!'

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Oct 2015 02:16:02 No.16883445 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>16882546
Sorta like the Guy Pierce Time Machine movie where he goes back a shitload of times to try and change it, but it always happens just in different ways.

>>16882552
He always was his own grandfather, we just found out about it in that episode.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sat 24 Oct 2015 02:56:00 No.16883610 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>16882673
This logic is fundamentally dependent upon the assumptions that both only one fate, destiny, timeline, whatever can exist and that one could travel into their own history as opposed to an alternate reality of either previous independent existence or of having been created by the act of timetravel itself.
The introduction of parallel realities as a scientific possibility removes the need for this conclusion as it was made by the logical process of elimination.
Not everything had been considered. Thus the conclusion is obsolete.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Oct 2015 04:11:39 No.16883872 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>16881700
the point of the grandfather's paradox, being a 'paradox', is to point out a flaw in time travel so isn't 'refusing to believe it' the point? of course, there are possible theories on how or why time travel could still exist despite this paradox.
> so why does he get so worked up about it?
autism/bored/etc

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Oct 2015 07:12:30 No.16884201 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>16884986

>>16882603
Assuming the alternate timeline theory rings true, every time a time machine is used a new timeline will be drawn, making it impossible to paradox all over the universes face.

Not saying that's what I believe. My grandpa's are both bro's, I'd never paradox em.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 24 Oct 2015 13:20:58 No.16884986 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>16884201
>tfw no granpas

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